6mm nodule upper left lobe - strange symptoms

[skdgr81]

Hello to all,

I am so glad to find this forum as you all seem to be so supportive and I really need to now and have alot to give.

I am 31, male and a former smoker of 18 years.. My saga starts this july 2005 with a lump in one tonsil and strange neurological symptoms.

Pains - like little electric shocks through my body. 2 Bouts of Bronchitis and coughing blood occasionally.

Been to four doctors they say tonsilitis and send me home. Finally got a Doc that listens and have been getting test run to find my prob.

I have had every symptom of lung cancer on and off and fear that my shooting pains are paraneoplastic syndrome in nature.

I had a normal chest x ray but because of the blood Doc sent me for CT and they found a noncalcified 6mm pulmonary nodule on my upper left lung beside the fissure ( bronchi- i guess)..And a borderline enlarged hilar lymph on right side 1.5 cm... The nodule is too small to biopsy

I am also having strange pains in my liver area and my head and throat. The ct of my neck found nothing and my sinus has a mucus retention cysts...

They recommend a rescan in 3-4 months for the lung nodule

The doc cant say if is cancer all he says is we watch and wait.. I am petrified considering the prognosis difference between stage 1 and later stage.

My questions are is this standard procedure? Can I demand that they remove it? How likely is this to be cancer considering all my other symptoms?

[Snowflake]

I am 31, male and a former smoker of 18 years.. I know how stupid that is now.

Uh, dude, you knew how stupid it was THEN! Water under the bridge, some of us never smoked and are right here with you...

Would I wait 3-4 months for another scan if someone thought I had cancer in my lungs? HELL NO! When I was diagnosed, the surgeon stressed getting my 2.7 cm tumor out within three weeks!

Do I think you have lung cancer from your symptoms? Could be, could be lots of other things, too. If there IS something hanging out in there and your doctor doesn't want a piece of it to KNOW what it is, find another doctor.

Some issues with the lung don't require surgery, some require a year on steroids... Find a doctor who's more curious to see what it is, if it's nothing, no harm no foul, but if it IS cancer, time is of the essence.

Good luck.

[cindi o'h]

Hi.

I am not going to agree with Snowflake on this one. And, I suppose that is the beauty of the group. We can do that.

The nodule that you are talking about is too small to biopsy it sounds to me. I suppose maybe a sputum culture might be in order. To get at that nodule would require major surgery into your lung and maybe losing a lobe only to discover that it may have been benign. That has happened before. Lots. And that is the risky business of the spiral CT's picking up teeny weenie sometimes insignificant "warts" on lungs.

All of your other symptoms can easily be explained away. Stress causes those glitches "jolts" in your body.

I think a few months doesn't sound so bad. But, that is me and my thinking. And I think that I got this line of thinking from oncodoc., our old pal from last year who used to try to gently educate us.

I s'pose I could say more, but I am getting kind of wore out.

Good luck with your decision. I do think if you tried real, real, real hard you could get someone to cut you open.

I would give your idea maximum 3 professional opinions and then put it to rest.

Cindi o'h

[Kasey]

There are several here (well at least 3 or 4 that I know of)who are watching and waiting on mm nodules. My husband is one of them!

I guess all depends on what you think about your symptoms. My husband has none right now. The couple of people we communicate with about their nodules have no symptoms either. So perhaps yours need attention sooner, don't know.

What I do know is that mm nodules are too tiny to be able to biopsy or really do anything about. Keep vigilant...especially due to your symptoms. Keep us posted and best of luck in your quest to get to the bottom of all this.

Kasey

[Snowflake]

Okay, I was REALLY tired last night. I READ 6 mm, I thought 6 cm. Quite a difference when "watching and waiting".

I take back what I said regarding waiting, 6 mm is very close to "nothing", how can you grab a piece of nothing? Now, if they think they may be cancer metastisizing from somewhere else....but you don't mention that.

I sure as heck wouldn't want on this ride if I didn't have to be. Stop worrying, go back in three months and see where you stand.

(and I'll try to not answer posts when I'm tired)

[Connie B]

I'm one of the MANY people that has a nodule.

One difference between YOUR nodule and MINE is I HAD CANCER so mine would be more likly to turn into cancer long before your does (NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF NODULE YOU or I HAVE)!

They WATCH NODULES and that's all they do. Every 3,4 even 6 months is how they watch them, via CT scan's.

Nodules Do NOT Cause pain or symptoms of any kind.

These electic pains your having sounds like a nerve issue, either having a pinched one, or something else. I would check with a neurologist. Again, it doesn't sound related to lung cancer. (NOT to say, LATE STAGE LC may cause lots of not so nice things)!

Coughing blood can be one of 50 things, but not having to be related to lung cancer issues. Is it Streaks of blood, or large amounts? Sometimes you can cough so hard you break vessels and that can cause blood to show up when coughing.

I have never heard of Lung Cancer being connected to the Tonsils. You may very well have a nasty infection in that area that isn't going away.

No they do NOT biopsy Nodules. Your 6mm nodule could be from an infecton or fungus that you have been trying to fight off. It sounds like you have been battleing some kind of crud and your lungs may be working Overtime fighting it off.

Nodules are VERY COMMON and not often life threatening. But, they do watch them for a while.

Hundreds of Thousands of People have nodules.

Having said all this, I am NOT taking your situations lightly, but as long as they are willing to watch it, then I think that's wonderful, and I will hope this little bugger goes away for you as it does for MANY! After watching mine for 3 years, they now think it could very well be scar tissue. And YES nodules can be scar tissue.

Go enjoy LIFE! This isn't a place you need to hang out at (yet, and hopefully NEVER) But, we're here if you need us.

Hope your feeling much better soon!

[Skye]

Hey Skd,

Just wanted to say welcome, and that you're in my thoughts, and prayers.

Many Blessings,

~skye~

[Dazy]

Hi There, and Welcome to Nodule Watch

I'm another of those currently watching some non-calcified nodules. I was asymptomatic at the beginning of all this, but now have developed moderate asthma (never been on an inhaler in my life...'til now ) Some of my labs are a little off (i.e. High serum calcium, CEA elevating, but still normal) My largest is 1.1cm and even the experts at Mayo Clinic Scottsdale say they won't normally touch 'em till they are almost 2cm!!! The problem is that they (the docs) can do alot more damage, and perhaps still end up with a non-diagnostic sample (i.e. May show no cancer, but that may be because they didn't get enough sample)

However, your symptoms sound EXACTLY like Valley Fever, aka Coccidioidomycosis (whew...that's mouthful) a fungus present in large amounts in much of the soil of the desert Southwest. Ask your doctor for a Serum Test AND a skin test (much like the fixative-titer given for TB) VF WILL cause pneumonia, flu-like symptoms, headaches, joint pain, liver pain, swollen nodes, etc. The lung nodules that can be left behind (only 5% of people with VF ever even develop symptoms, but for that 5% symptoms can be severe!) usually will eventually cavitate, causing bleeding. VF can disseminate to the bones, skin, liver, even the brain - causing meningitis. There is no cure, but it can be treated rather effectively with anti-fungals, and occasionally surgery.

As for the wait & watch...I know, it makes you nuts, but it sounds like a good eye is being kept on it. Keep up on your CT scans, and I would recommend NOT accepting simple XRAY observation. They don't reliably see nodules smaller than 1.5cm. PET will probably not be helpful either, as I understand it does not reliable show uptake in sub-centimeter lesions, or less metabolically active tumors (i.e. BAC)

TRY to not let this make you crazy...believe me...I think that is the worst damage these little suckers cause us If you would like more info on VF, please feel free to PM me. In the meantime I'll try to find some of the info. I have on VF - as well as on nodules.

Try this site for VF info:

http://www.emedicine.com/RADIO/topic179.htm

Good luck, and hang in there

~Stacey

[Connie B]

Just wanted to add that your symptoms could be MANY things. Could be COPD related, or a Virus of sort, or TB related, the list can and does go on and on.

Good luck.

Go enjoy life, You don't have lung cancer,(at least that's what all the doctor's have told you) you really don't want to hang out here unless you have too!

Maybe someone will have to think of starting up a NODULE SUPPORT GROUP!

[skdgr81]

As far as looking for metastised cancer I think we are on that hunt. My doc had my throat and chest ct'd at the same time.. which included liver and spleen ..

Getting an upper gi next week.. . and I am going to ask that we have my head looked at " for several reasons" lol.. just to make sure..

I did have a uri and an episode of bronchitis over a month ago..

Could that be the source of the nodule..?

Also thanks for the info on valley fever.. I am going to ask for that screening also.

It is just not in me to wait around.. I am in attack mode - is very frustrating.

Thanks to everyone who replied and introduced themselves..

[francesbean]

Hello skdgr81, and welcome.

I have no words, except that a second or third opinion would help. Good luck and I hope that you get good news! God bless you.

[gail]

My thoughts--for two cents--

My nodule was 1 cm. The oncologist sent me for a biopsy which was inconclusive. Sent me to the surgeon who wanted it out, and took it out.

My question--

Who have you seen?

gail

[bunny]

for me, the bottom line is your comfort level. waiting is absolutely par for the course, we waited on a spot that appeared in my mom's lung for 2 years, even after she'd already had cancer. did it turn out to be cancer? yes. would she have gone through the surgery to find that out 2 years ago? for her, the answer was no. you're the only one who knows. you HAVE to have a doc you have confidence in.

have you gotten any results from the other scans?

re: the bonchitis - in a fit of fear after my mom's cancer returned, I had a CT scan myself. (33 at the time, former smoker), I;d had bronchitis last year. from what the doc explained infections leave "calcified nodules". the non-calcified ones are what they watch.

so that's my two cents. you sound scared, hon, which is understandable. this place will be a source of information and support for you.

xoxo

amie

[Don M]

Hi and welcome: my second cancer was just over one cm when it came out. It was too small when first observed about 6 months earlier. When it fially showed uptake in a PET scan, I went to see surgeon and it came out.

You might look into having a combination ct-pet scan. Here are 2 links:

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/healthso ... Vision.htm

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/conte ... Spread.asp

Thery are supposed to be more accurate than a separate ct and/or PET scan.

Don M

[Fay A.]

I can speak only for myself and with 20/20 hindsight. This means I am not objective when it comes to this subject.

My first primary tumor was 5mm when it was first "discovered". Because it contained calcification and because it was so small I was told it was nothing (About 25% of Lung Cancers contain calcification). I was 32 years old then. My docs watched it for years...they watched it slowly grow, and they watched others form. I was diagnosed with Lung Cancer 12 years later. I have been living with Lung Cancer for 6 1/2 years.

A 6mm nodule is too small for a Fine Needle Aspiration Biopsy. It is not too small for a wedge resection, because I have had nodules that small removed and examined by during surgery to remove larger tumors.

The real question is are you willing to have a large standard thoracotomy with attending risks in order to have that type of biopsy performed? Are you willing to have a VATS procedure for the same kind of biopsy? There are advantages and disadvantages to all of the various procedures to evaluate malignant disease vs benign. It depends upon how much you are willing to risk to know the answer, and whether you can find a surgeon willing to help you. You may have to travel outside your geographic area to find someone willing to help you. Many of us have done so.

If I had it to do over again-and knowing what I now know-I would insist that my first primary nodule be removed and examined. It may not have made any difference in how long I survived, but it sure has heck would have made a difference in how I felt. My tumors produce hormones that give me all kinds of strange symptoms, and during the 12 years it took to a correct diagnosis I felt terrible. Many of the Docs treated me as if I were faking things (Military Medical so I saw different Physicians all the time.).

I hope that you soon have the answers you need that will lead to good health.

[skdgr81]

It is me again here on nodule watch. I was curious to know if any of u guys that were dx had a lump in one tonsil. It is driving me nuts along with the tightness in my neck and the stabbin pains in my eye and blurry vision. It is on and off so I am not sure if it warrants an ER visit or just talk to my doc about it on the 1rst.

Can a 6mm nodule cause all this drama or could it be somethihng else?

Have had my neck, chest, liver, spleen CT'D and all that is there is that 6mm nodule.

I had a sinus xray done and there is a cysts in my left sinus but my pains are in the right eye.

I have bad tmj - could that be the culprit..

Sorry about all the questions .. I just feel lost

Sam

[Connie B]

I'm not doctor, but I honestly don't think a 6mm nodule would cause anything, let alone pain. Do you know how small a 6mm nodule is??? It's a little bigger then the moon on your fingernail. I really think this nodule is causing the right side of your brain to think overtime!

I have no doubt you have something going on, but I really don't believe it has anything to do with yourdreaded nodule.

Could you have strep throat? That can really cause some nasty side effects and some of what your discribing as pain.

If your pain is that bad, and you can't stand it anymore, then I would say, call the doc. Don't know what the ER would do for you either. Although, I have heard some really duzzie stories about the ER's in Vegas!

Did they do a workup on your throat??? I'm really trying to figure this one out. Your a mystery my dear! ((((SAM)))) Just funnin with you. But, I am concerned for you. I know your not feeling good, and you do need to get to the bottom of this.

I'll keep my thinking cap on.

Hugs,

Connie

[Snowflake]

I'm not doctor, but I honestly don't think a 6mm nodule would cause anything, let alone pain. Do you know how small a 6mm nodule is??? It's a little bigger then the moon on your fingernail. I really think this nodule is causing the right side of your brain to think overtime!

Connie, read what you wrote. Was YOUR tumor causing you any distress when it was found? MINE wasn't, and it was larger, but believe me, there was a helluva lotta stress as soon as I knew what it was.

Since I was one lymph node away from being Stage IV, I'm DAMN GLAD I didn't wait until I started to feel symptoms to decide to do something. IF I could have known when it was 6 mm and had the stupid thing out then, or before it was even cancer and was just "dysplasia", betcherass I would have had it out then!

Would I be concerned were a 6 mm nodule to show up on one of my CT's? Oh yeah, concerned, scared, and flipping out over something that small...

It's PROBABLY nothing, but then again, knowing what you know now, wouldn't you want to know for sure? I would.

[Connie B]

Good points Becky, but there's a little more to this then you know. However, as I have said in other posts this isn't to be taken lightly, but it's also nothing to get all worked up about until you know what is going on.

My tumor was 3.4 CM not mm when we found it. NOT that mm can't be cancer, but there doing lots and lots of studies on nodules and it's really up in the air right now.

I know a lot of people that just have a 3, 4, 5, 6, mm nodule and do not have lung cancer or any other kind of cancer. And yes, there is an exception to every rule. It's a roller-coast ride, and yes we all know that and how scary it is. I totally understand Sam's fear 120%. The U of M and Mayo Clinic has been working on this study for two years now, and I make sure I pay attention to things that are coming down the pike. And right now, nodules by themselves are causing a lot of havoc in the medical and patient world. The study has 6 years to go. Let's hope they find something out long before 6 years.

I guess I was just trying to help him settle down a little until he knows what is going on.

Sam is working on getting answers. Hopefully soon, Sam and I are planning on meeting one another soon, being we are both in Vegas.

Sam, Hang in there, someone has a LOT of splanen to do for all your going through right now.

[skdgr81]

Ok here we are at the cross roads..

What exactly would u do ? and how can I get it done?

I mean do I show up at the hospital door and demand surgery..

I am just so new to this..

Thanks,

Sam

Thanks for the info.. I love u all

[Dazy]

Good Morning, Sam ~

I popped in to check on a friend, and saw your frightened post from last p.m....my advice, as a fellow NW...

1) BREATHE...nice deep ones...in four...out four...

2) EAT TURKEY and ENJOY THE DAY!!! I KNOW you're scared, but you've got a bit of a wait ahead of you before you get answers. Don't let this make you forget how to LIVE - whatEVER this is!

3) Do you like reading? I hope so Read, study, gain as much info. as possible on nodules, including ALL (and there are many) other differential Dx's (other possible diagnosis).

Connie IS right. MANY nodules are mistaken for cancer, and found on biopsy to be other entities that are NON malignant. RULE THEM OUT FIRST by less invasive means than surgery, if possible. Needle biopsy will be tricky, and like Fay A. said you will have to be willing to possibly have a seriously invasive procedure for something that otherwise may do no real harm. You're young and while 6mm doesn't sound like much, I've heard you lose alot more actual lung than that, even in a staple resection. I believe this is why so many docs prefer the wait & watch on these tiny nodules.

Your symptoms still sound like Valley Fever to me. See the info on symptoms (long, but here for the viewing for anyone else in the future, as well) See if any hits home...See your doctor on the first or if you choose ER - MAKE SURE THEY TEST YOU FOR VF! Insist on that before removing your lung, please... And really, I get it...I was JUST like you last Feb....(((SAM))) We are ALL mentally holding your hand. HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

~Stacey

FROM VALLEY FEVER SURVIVORS WEBSITE:

http://www.valleyfeversurvivor.com

Valley Fever Symptoms

Not every symptom below will necessarily occur in every case of Valley Fever. Everyone's VF infection can be different. Some patients experience no symptoms, some have many, and some might have all of these symptoms. Valley Fever is often misdiagnosed as cancer, tuberculosis, or bacterial pneumonia. The fact that VF cases vary so greatly is a part of the reason this disease is so frequently misdiagnosed.

Below is list of the possible Valley Fever (coccidioidomycosis) symptoms:

flu-like symptoms, weight loss, fever, vision problems, chills, photosensitivity,

shortness of breath/wheezing, muscle aches,

chronic cough, muscle stiffness, dizziness, severe head pain (as opposed to a normal headache),

night sweats, chest pain/pressure, headaches, joint pain, rash, joint swelling, malaise/chronic exhaustion, joint stiffness, loss of appetite, leg/ankle/foot swelling, nausea, burning sensation in various joints of the body

In humans and animals alike, Valley Fever starts in the lungs and can disseminate to virtually anywhere in the body, such as the:

skin lymph nodes

heart bones

joints brain

spine kidney

liver thyroid

eyes gastrointestinal tract

testicles genitourinary tract

prostate

With the potential to affect any or all of these, Valley Fever can be profoundly different for each patient. The disease can cause hydrocephalus (spinal fluid on the brain), verrucose ulcers (wartlike outgrowths on the surface or organs and skin), arthralgias (joint pains), myalgias (muscle pains), otomycosis (fungal infection of the external auditory canal), hypercalcemia (extra calcium in the blood) and other terrible conditions.

The simplest, fastest description of Valley Fever is that the disease can take nearly any part of the body and produce an abscess, lesion, nodule, or inflammation there. Lytic lesions have the local cell membranes rupture, keratotic ulcers are within the cornea (part of the eye), and the disease can create these conditions on internal organs and create visible, hideous skin conditions.

The process of inflaming a part of the body sounds simple, but leads to painful and life-threatening conditions like

conjunctivitis - inflammation of the membrane of the eyelids and outer surface of the eye.

endocarditis - inflammation of the inner lining of the heart cavities.

meningitis - inflammation of the lining of the brain. This is the most lethal form of coccidioidomycosis.

myocarditis - inflammation of the heart's walls.

osteomyelitis - inflammation of bone that can ultimately result in the bone's destruction. In many cocci cases it is polystoic, meaning it affects more than one bone at a time. Osteomyelitis can happen in any bone and is second only to meningitis in the devastation it can cause to Valley Fever sufferers.

pleuritis - inflammation of the membranes around the lung and the lung cavity.

tenosynovitis - inflammation of the tendon sheaths, causing joint pain.

vasculitis - inflammation of blood or lymph vessels.

One way Valley Fever is detected is through a "compliment fixation titer." This means that doctors examine blood by diluting it until they can no longer detect antibodies to Valley Fever. A titer of 1:8 is considered serious, because it means they had to dilute their sample eight times. High titers often reflect dissemination or a severe infection. If an infected person's (or animal's) body does not produce antibodies, a titer will be negative, regardless of the infection's severity. Valley Fever SurvivorTM has more information about titers at our glossary page.

Copyright 2002-2005 valleyfeversurvivorTM.com All Rights Reserved

[Connie B]

Well Sam,

What Dazy has shared is really sounding more like what you have. And I have heard in this area that Valley Fever is pretty common.

Dazy is also right about surgery for a nodule. They honestly just don't go in and remove them. Because most of them are not cancer and in time they may go away. Most of them do!!

Lets slow down just a little here. What KIND of doctor's have you seen? You say you have seen several. Have you seen an EENT Doc? (Eye's Ears Nose & Throat) Who told you about the nodule? A Primary or a Pulmonolgoist? How long has this been going on for you?

I think you need a doc that will work with you to find out what is going on. I gave you some names of doc's in my pm to you last night, start with them and see what happens. We'll get to the bottom of this mystery somehow my dear.

Hang in there, we're trying to help the best we can.

[gail]

As far as nodules go . . .

I just saw my onc on Tuesday as a followup to my CT scan. The only thing that showed were 2 small nodules. One was 3x5mm, and the other was smaller than that.

I have had one nodule that shows it's face every so often since the initial dx. This time it was a bit larger than the last time, but the dr assured me it could be just where the scan cut it.

He reconfirmed that they don't do anything until the nodule reaches 7mm. He is presenting my CT scans to his group of doctors for their opinions and also reviewing it with the head radiologist again.

They may rescan in 4 months rather than 6. I will call him back in a few weeks.

I am okay with this, especially since the nodule has been with me forever. Sometimes hiding, sometimes not.

Am I happy? That night I went to a viewing for a 20 year old who was rear ended by an 18 wheeler.

My life is good

gail

[barbaraSanAntone]

Hi Sam, I just thought I might address what you called a "lump" in a tonsil. That is unusual. You might have enlarged tonsils, but a "lump" in a tonsil is not common and can easily be taken care of: a tonsillectomy. As with any surgery, there can be complications, but at least the tissue has been removed and can be looked at microscopically. How did you get diagnosis of TMJ, how is it being treated? Good luck, good health.

[Nananita]

On 11/19/2005 at 2:47 PM, Dazy said:

Hi There, and Welcome to Nodule Watch

I'm another of those currently watching some non-calcified nodules. I was asymptomatic at the beginning of all this, but now have developed moderate asthma (never been on an inhaler in my life...'til now ) Some of my labs are a little off (i.e. High serum calcium, CEA elevating, but still normal) My largest is 1.1cm and even the experts at Mayo Clinic Scottsdale say they won't normally touch 'em till they are almost 2cm!!! The problem is that they (the docs) can do alot more damage, and perhaps still end up with a non-diagnostic sample (i.e. May show no cancer, but that may be because they didn't get enough sample)

However, your symptoms sound EXACTLY like Valley Fever, aka Coccidioidomycosis (whew...that's mouthful) a fungus present in large amounts in much of the soil of the desert Southwest. Ask your doctor for a Serum Test AND a skin test (much like the fixative-titer given for TB) VF WILL cause pneumonia, flu-like symptoms, headaches, joint pain, liver pain, swollen nodes, etc. The lung nodules that can be left behind (only 5% of people with VF ever even develop symptoms, but for that 5% symptoms can be severe!) usually will eventually cavitate, causing bleeding. VF can disseminate to the bones, skin, liver, even the brain - causing meningitis. There is no cure, but it can be treated rather effectively with anti-fungals, and occasionally surgery.

As for the wait & watch...I know, it makes you nuts, but it sounds like a good eye is being kept on it. Keep up on your CT scans, and I would recommend NOT accepting simple XRAY observation. They don't reliably see nodules smaller than 1.5cm. PET will probably not be helpful either, as I understand it does not reliable show uptake in sub-centimeter lesions, or less metabolically active tumors (i.e. BAC)

TRY to not let this make you crazy...believe me...I think that is the worst damage these little suckers cause us If you would like more info on VF, please feel free to PM me. In the meantime I'll try to find some of the info. I have on VF - as well as on nodules.

Try this site for VF info:

http://www.emedicine.com/RADIO/topic179.htm

Good luck, and hang in there

~Stacey

Hi stacey

i had blood test shows no vf now or before but I had biopsy of mass and they say vf