Does anyone want to join me on some dietary changes for 2005

[Lisa O]

I have gotten a bit careless lately with my no sugar/no white flour rules. I am determined to eat a healthier diet for 2005. I feel that it has helped me greatly, if not physically, than at least emotionally in allowing me to feel that I have a greater sense of control over my body. I also have more energy and my labs have been great. There is of course a school of thought that teaches that sugar and simple carbs feed cancer so I started the process because I wanted to make sure I did nothing to entice the unwanted visitor to stay in my body. If anyone would like to join me or share tips or cooking suggestions, low carb ideas... it would be welcome.

[chloesmom]

Lisa,

I had great aspirations to totally convert my diet, but I've fallen short so far. I don't know if sugar and white flour are really as bad as some say, but I don't think they're helpful foods, that's for sure. And, it certainly couldn't hurt to greatly reduce them from our diets.

I think I'm finally in the mindset to lose all this extra weight I've been carrying around since surgery 18 months ago. I did have great success with WeightWatchers a few years ago, and, while things have jumped up in the way, I think that now I finally am feeling like I can do this.

So, I'll join you in the new year in trying to help ourselves stay as healthy as possible. I know that right now, in my Christmas sugar and everything else bad binge, I feel awful. Sluggish, never satisfied food wise, etc. And, I attribute that to all the sugar and other lack of nutrition during this time.

I think I'm going to stick to mainly lean protein, fruits, and vegetables, and be sure I get fat free dairy (can't forget the calcium), and I don't see how I can't not lose these pounds doing that.

I also have a new gym membership that I plan to use 3 weekdays after work and once on the weekend.

If I can stick to that I should see some results before my next surgeon's appt on Feb 9.....sure would like to post a good weight loss when I see him.

Cindy

[Lisa O]

I'm with you Cindy.... it seems we certainly do move better and breath better without the extra weight too! I'm here if you need encouragement.... and I'll be looking for your progress too! P.M me if you would like.

The link between sugar and cancer is relatively contraversial but has gained momentum in even conservative medicine lately. This year, the following article appeared in USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... usat_x.htm

Many longstanding critics of sugar and high glycemic carbs have since quoted that research. It is also interesting that Pet scan uses glucose to deliver the contrast which lights up high metabolic cancer. The glucose goes right to the cancer. I have heard many arguments both ways but why take the chance when the sugar is so bad for us on so many levels.

[chloesmom]

Lisa,

Good article. Like you said, there are a lot of reasons to stay away from sugar and simple carbs, so why not? Now that the sugar rush of Christmas is over, I'm feeling a little more in control. Not to say I will be totally eliminating them from my diet, but occasionally would be a huge improvement over my current practices.

More later.....

Cindy

[BoBennett]

Hey Lisa,

I went to nothing but uncooked fruits and vegetables in late July, and it has made a huge difference for me. Haven’t had a sugary thing in 6 months.

I would suggest that you might try to build in a little carelessness, it helps keep me on track. I have certain foods I now eat for taste. And I have gotten a little off,as well from

F&V/U three or four nights and then stuff to F&V/U every other night. My glucose tells me get back on track. Survival shoves me to the track.

I subscribe to that school of thought. As I was learning about cancer this thought kept coming up in subtle ways but not from the mainstream. I initially was brought to F&V/U and no sugar through another venue. What clenched it for me was the following.

(1)

PET scan Positron emission tomography scan. A procedure in which a small amount of radioactive glucose (sugar) is injected into a vein, and a scanner is used to make detailed, computerized pictures of areas inside the body where the glucose is used. Because cancer cells often use more glucose than normal cells, the pictures can be used to find cancer cells in the body.

PET scan (positron emission tomography): PET uses a form of sugar that contains a radioactive atom. Cancer cells in the body absorb large amounts of the sugar.

This above is the definition of a PET scan found in the National Cancer Institute web site. This is the first I have seen, in the mainstream, about sugar being utilized by cancer. I take Because cancer cells often use more glucose than normal cells and Cancer cells in the body absorb large amounts of the sugar. to mean that cancer feeds off sugar more than healthy cells feed off sugar, then it could reasonably follow that denying cancer this food source it might reasonably follow that the cancer may not do as well in an environment that is absent an abundance of this food source. This is not to say that you should, or can, rid your body of all sugar/glucose, it is to say that maybe if we curtail our sugar intake it may favor an environment for recovery.

I no longer indulge in sugar products.

As for energy, (considering a lack of traditional foods). I remain outside in 40 degree temp, for three hours with out a shirt or hat, (bald) and my shell gets cold but the insides are fine, all that heat comes from fruit, so I’m comfortable that I’m not lacking, as blood and such attest to.

I’m like a wind up typewriter with this stuff.

I hope to get suggestion from others, it all helps.

Bo

[Lisa O]

Thanks for the contribution Bo... that is exactly the argument I have heard concerning Pet! The flip side that is argued by opponents (I do not subscribe to this theory) is that cancer has a higher metabolic rate and that because the body is fasting (starved for glucose) the glucose is used to bind the tracer. The glucose naturally goes to the cancer only because of the metabolic needs - not because glucose necessarily feeds cancer. I have never really understood that argument because it still seems glucose goes right to cancer --- so I would rather not contribute to the heightened metabolic needs of the cancer if I can help it. The counter argument seems cyclical to me but it does have its proponents. I would rather just avoid the sugar. Of course in my book that includes all of the whites with the high glycemic index including white flour, white rice, white potatoes, very high sugar fruits (of course there are less of these)...

I am so glad we are getting more of us on board.

[Mr Ry]

This my understanding of sugar and the body. I have been a type two diabetic for close to six years. They told me that my insulin was not working properly. All cells need sugar to survive. Sugar can not pass through the cell walls without the aid of insulin. I was given a drug to help insulin carry that sugar though the cell walls. I was also told to cut my sugar intake back and exercise. I monitor my sugar level once a day first thing in the morning. It tells me how well I did the day before.

Your body needs sugar to maintain itself. Yes so does cancer cells. The way they explained it to me concerning the PET scan, is cancer cells being fast growing need more sugar. So the cancer cells light up because they draw in more of the radiated sugar. All fast growing cells do the same. An example are cells around a wound will take up more sugar because they are fast growing cells. They always ask me in the pre PET scan interview I have had any injuries or sugars recently.

The non-white foods Lisa is talking about are foods that still contain sugar but are slower for the body to convert to sugar. Which is why they are much better for your body. You are not hitting your body with this big volume of sugar at once.

[kimmek]

This is a great topic. I would love to take part for my mom as well as for myself. I have NOTHING i can bring to the table to share as I have never been one to eat healthy, as well as mom. Good ole southern cooking here. I know right now mom's diet as become the most important thing for her to change for many different reasons, but the bottom line is to be healthier all around.

How to you change 60 (me 40) yrs of eating habits over night. We went to the grocery store yesterday with the intent to buy foods that were good for mom. Fruits=2 bananas, Veggies=None,mainly just quick things to pop in microwave or something. We did not get her Ice cream and puddings as we have for the last 6 months. Her giving up just those 2 things is good, but we need to do so much more. My eating habots are just as bad if not worse than hers. I can and do like to cook though, so I think I will have an easier time. I can also cook extraa for mom and take it to her, she doesnt mind left overs at all.

I just dont know where to turn for help. This is a great idea here, but i think we need more. Im not sure what exactly a nutrisionist (sp) does or how one could be benificial here. So if anyone has any ideas that could send me off in the right direction, i would be grateful. Any books/cookbooks that are recomended would help also.

Thanks for the push I needed to get moving on this. Just thinking and talking about it, has gotten me no where so far, but I'm ready now as is Mom.

Kim

[chloesmom]

There is loads of information on the internet regarding nutrition as well as books at both the bookstores and library. For me, I'm thinking moderation is key.

I hope to be able to concentrate on mainly fruits and vegetables in my diet, with some lean protein (chicken, lean beef and pork), healthy grains(whole grain breads and cereals), non-fat dairy, and just a few treats here and there.

This is not an optimal diet by any means, but it sure would be a vast improvement for me. I have made a great effort in the past couple of years to eat healthier food, such as yellow and orange and dark green vegetables, and concentrate on fruits and getting enough calcium, which is all well and good, except that I didn't cut out the junk food well enough, leading to about a 30 pound excess that I want to go.

So, this is my plan for now....start with some small steps, like a healthy vegetable course at lunch and dinner, and maybe grilling instead of frying meats.

Hope this helps...

Cindy

[Snowflake]

One suggestion my doctor had was adding fiber to the diet, as in FiberOne, Citracel, Metamucil... She said it would help with digestion AND rid the body of some unusable (except as fat) calories. They get packed and passed instead of absorbed and packed on...

...and to drink lots of water. She suggested a full glass of water before every meal to fool the tummy into thinking it is already half full so less food is needed to fill it.

All SOUNDS logical, so why am I dragging my feet? LOL

[BoBennett]

Kim,

Its tough, what I do, since I know how easy I can BS myself right into eating for taste is accept the thought that nothing is healthier than natural all else can be argued. All fruits and veggies I assume are natural and the cave folks designed our bodies and digestive systems through the millennia The garden of Eden didn’t have a bottle of olive oil or jar of cashews so I choose to consider them non natural even though they come from natural sources and darn good stuff I’ll admit. I don’t believe a marketer or study one that says they are healthy for you, they are better, in place of a poke in the eye or a Big Mac, but designed and marketed for taste and satisfaction in mind, not health.

Since diagnosis I have come to look at things differently.

Just my thoughts on the subject. Anytime something not processed is passed in favor of a piece of fruit adds tens minutes to your life, I think.

Bo

[chloesmom]

Snowflake,

I'm totally in agreement with the water before meals theory. I know it helps, but I too am not doing it all the time. I also have been given the advice of drinking a big glass of water between meals if I feel I want something to eat and see if that satisfies the craving. The theory is that a lot of times you're not really hungry but thirsty and you misinterpret the craving.

There are so many other benefits to getting enough water--helps your complexion, good for dry hair and skin, removes the toxins from your body.

Which brings up another issue--what are you all doing about drinking water? I have had a reverse osmosis filter on my tap water in my house for more than 10 years, and it is seldom, if ever, that I drink tap water that has not been filtered. Only thing is the coffee we have here at work is not made with filtered water and I've had plenty of that over the years.

We have bad water in our city, maybe others don't in their cities, but it is a concern here. So, that's what I do. What about everyone else?

Cindy

[Ry]

Here is an article about veggies you might be interested in.

How Cruciferous Vegetables Fight Cancer

Cruciferous vegetables treat potential carcinogens the way Tony Soprano does a snitch. By the time members of the cruciferous family (see list below) are through with them, there's nothing left but harmless substances to be excreted.

Cruciferous vegetables' anti-cancer firepower comes from phytochemicals called isothiocyanates, which stimulate our bodies to break down potential carcinogens. Sulforaphane, found in broccoli and in even more concentrated form in broccoli sprouts, is a well-known isothiocyanate. It stimulates the body to produce enzymes that detoxify carcinogens. Among men and women aged 50 to 74 in a study from Harbor UCLA Medical Center in Torrance, Calif., participants who ate the most broccoli (average: 3.7 half-cup cooked servings weekly) were only half as likely to develop colorectal cancer as subjects who said they never ate broccoli.

Broccoli sprouts contain 20 to 50 times the amount of sulforaphane in mature broccoli. That means you'll get as much sulforaphane in a few tablespoons of broccoli sprouts as in a pound of broccoli. When scientists at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore fed broccoli sprouts to rats for several days, and then gave them carcinogens, the animals developed smaller, fewer and slower-growing tumors than the ones that didn't eat sprouts.

Watercress contains a powerful compound called PEITC (phenethyl isothiocyanate, if you're wondering), which is not only cancer-preventive in general, but specifically blocks the nicotine in cigarette smoke from causing lung tumors in animals. PEITC is at its highest levels in raw watercress, although some remains after cooking.

Many cruciferous vegetables also contain indole-3-carbinol, a compound that affects sex-hormone metabolism involved with the progression of prostate, breast and ovarian cancers. Men between 40 and 64 who ate three or more half-cup servings of cruciferous vegetables a week were 41 percent less likely to develop prostate cancer, according to researchers at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle.

MEET THE CRUCIFERS

Arugula

Beet greens

Bok choy

Broccoli

Brussels sprouts

Cabbage

Cauliflower

Chinese cabbage

Collard greens

Daikon

Horseradish

Kale

Kohlrabi

Mustard greens

Radishes

Rutabaga

Swiss chard

Turnips

Watercress

[Lisa O]

John,

You are 100% correct in my position.... I would not try to give up glucose completely.... I am not sure anyone could. I just try to go with whole grains and lower glycemic choices. I do try to avoid processed foods and escpecially white sugar, white flour and white rice. Ry could still have her pasta though. They have some great whole grain pasta. My daughter Leah loves whole grain macaroni and cheese.

I think the water is crucial too. I am terrible with that in the winter. I seem to want to drink only hot beverages. I am always so COLD. I would think drinking more water would be even more important with the IRESSA.

RY, I LOVE almost all of those vegetables on that list. I could eat radishes by the bushel and broccoli and brussel sprouts are some of my favorite snacks. Go figure how I ever got cancer.

[BoBennett]

John,

Do you know of the “dawn effect”. Where the body spikes itself with glucose in the AM for starting needs.

I understand the flip side to the glucose question and accept that sometimes we retrofit our own answers for our questions with what we want. I agree lower glycemic choices is a moderation that is a good choice.

Six months before diagnosis my blood sugar was up, (180)(never been there before and I had no diet change to aid that number) for how long I don’t know, however it stayed in that range until I went to fruit and veggies in July. I test each morning and there is a correlation to feeling stiff and sore, a general feeling of well being and with my glucose level. I’ve read a little about a round robin of sorts with cancer feeding, glucose, lactic acid, liver, and back to glucose, something like that. I’m not explaining myself well at all here but my point is there seems to be something to all this. I mean it really needs to be filtered and qualified but maybe condensing and concentrating the best part, (sugar stuff) is not a good thing. The body in normal day to day doesn’t need the concentrate, maybe it doesn’t know how to healthily utilize an overabundance.

.

I agree with the drinking of water. I never really drank water before, fluids came from other stuff, coffee, milk juice or nothing. I now make it a point to drink water only for fluid sakes. I subscribe to the thought that chlorine is a bad thing so all my water comes from springs or wells. Obviously chlorine is good and needed for a mass water system but anything the body ingest that isn’t natural the immune system must fight and any fight that isn’t going toward the cancer is unnecessary for me at this point. If I were real serious I would shower outside with the hose so I wouldn’t breath in the chlorinated steam in the shower, I haven’t got there yet, so.

Many people have subscribed to much of what is talked about on this board and haven’t faired well but I look at it as I dodged so many bullets during my life that now I want fewer bullets flying at me.

I finished my F&V last night and put four pieces of chicken in the microwave, came back from the TV room, sat at the computer and did nothing more that smell the chicken, I’m so proud of myself.

Bo

[Lisa O]

I am just checking in to see if anyone wants to chat. I haven't eaten any (and I do mean ANY -- I wouldn't even eat a black grape that was calling to me) high sugar food since the first of the year. This is not new to me. I gave up high glycemic foods since fall of 2002. When one of my scans came back questionable, I loosened up a bit and lost faith in the program. I am now back on track.

[chloesmom]

Lisa,

Sounds like you are doing great....sounds like you are eliminating fruit for the most part too, is that right? That's just something I can't seem to be without at least right now.

I have however made some improvements.....I am loosely following the new WeightWatchers plan where you don't have to weight and measure and count and all that except when you eat things that are off the plan.

It is mostly lean proteins, fruits, vegetables, and non-fat dairy. I'm trying to choose the dark green and orange vegetables as much as possible....romaine lettuce, carrots, squash, etc. My protein is lean chicken, fish, and some very, very lean pork.

When I eat grains, I'm trying for oatmeal, cream of wheat, that kind of thing.

I'm finding this to be a very satisfying diet overall, and I'm losing my craving for sugar as well, which is always good news.

Water is also an important component of this plan, as it is with all diets, I guess, so I'm trying to get a lot of that included too.

So, I guess my report is so far, so good. There's always room for improvement, but it's waaaaay better than the Christmas season diet I had.

Exercise is going pretty well too. Getting to the gym every other day and working on the treadmill, exercise bike, elliptical trainer and the weight machines.

Hopefully this will result is some fairly significant weight loss so that I will be able to wear my summer clothes this year. That would be great.....

Cindy

[Lisa O]

That sounds like a great plan. I am not giving up fruit entirely. I just try to stay away from the really high sugar fruit like pineapple, grapes and watermellon. Keep it up.

[BoBennett]

Lisa,

Just wondering how the ol diet thing is going. As you, I feel food plays a part in all this.

It is so hard to find factual information about the cancer feeds off sugar thing but as long as its accepted that sugar is an empty vitamin “food“, and high glucose is not a good thing, then why not. I have mentioned that I monitor my glucose daily. My goal is to keep it in the accepted range. Foods seem to be key to this. When ever it is “high” I am bothered and make necessary adjustments .

I am feeling, not acting on it, like I want “regular” food. Not sure if it’s a winter thing, but thankfully the new crop of corn & cantaloupes are soon to be.

I have found an interesting situation that I wanted to pass on, and if anyone has any thoughts I would be interested. I am not in any way suggesting that it is a fact that cancer feeds off sugar or glucose. Though I accept it as a logical possibility due to all I’ve read.

For close to one year my glucose. Has been high in the am and has always fallen dramatically by the afternoon. This was before dietary changes it is rarely high in the am now. It was rarely above 110ish after noon. Just recently I checked my glucose just before leaving on a long hike , afternoon, and it was 185. I had not eaten foods that would account for this, I was shocked. Because there is a situation, known as the “dawn effect” the body spikes itself with glucose in the early am to start one out for the day, I am wondering if the anticipation of a stressful period, such as a difficult hike, that the body spikes itself with glucose/energy for the event.

I think the body needs glucose for life reasons, where the cancer feeds off sugar fits with these needs is the question.

As an after thought that is in line with no glucose intake and the cancer will die. Heat has been shown to kill cancer, the problem is we need to throw ourselves in the fire to kill the cancer. For a period I was taking a sauna and would pour the water over the rocks and breath in the steam. It’s a nervy situation but gotta try.

Just yabering

Bo

[Lisa O]

Hi Bo...

You made some interesting points. I know that in stressful situations including illness and infections diabetics often have higher glucose. I am not sure of the exact biological connection but the body does use glucose for energy.

I am still avoiding the "whites" -- although I am having a hard time this winter laying off the over indulgence of the bananas and apples with soy butter. Certain things can become a weakness.

Thanks for the reminder.

Lisa

[JaneC]

Bo,

I am a nurse specializing in diabetes. I don't think the anticipation of a long hike should have been enough to spike your sugar that much. How long had it been since you'd eaten before you checked your sugar?

I'm not sure what your sugar is fasting but there is some thought (based on new research) that really it should be under 100 although the current guidelines are set at 110. Sometimes mild exercise in the evening, or eating a few nuts before bed can help with the fasting blood sugar and sometimes a little red wine can help, too (but check with you doc first about the wine).

[Hebbie]

Jane - Thanks for the post on where blood sugar SHOULD be -- we all hear that we should eat to keep the blood sugar low, but I never saw what "low" meant. I DO know that when you have a PET scan, they can't do the scan if your sugar is over 200 -- I've had two PETs now -- the first time, they made such a fuss about how it had to be under 200 or they couldn't do the test....and then they checked my levels and I was sitting at a blood sugar level of 73. For my second PET, it was at 85. I guess my level is ok!

Lisa -- I too have a weakness for apples, and I dip the wedges in almond butter. I think as long as you are combining it with a "fat", it slows down the sugar rush to your system, so you should be ok.

I too have been having trouble with my diet lately. I still NEVER eat the "whites", but my problem is FAT. Last night, for instance, I had a wild salmon burger on a whole wheat bun, but then I slathered it with a seasoned mayo (all natural, but still "fatty"). Then I indulged and had some lobster bisque and a side caesar salad. It all came from Whole Foods Market, and I know the ingredients didn't have anything "forbidden", but the fat content was WAY more than I should be eating. I need to get back to my old standbyes, like baked salmon, a baked sweet potato, steamed broccoli and sauteed spinich.... two salmon dinners, but VERY different!

I just dont know where to turn for help. This is a great idea here, but i think we need more. Im not sure what exactly a nutrisionist (sp) does or how one could be benificial here. So if anyone has any ideas that could send me off in the right direction, i would be grateful. Any books/cookbooks that are recomended would help also.

I just saw this request for book/cookbook recommendations. The first book I read after diagnoses was "What to Eat When You Have Cancer". It was great, and easy to read/understand. I also recommend "Beating Cancer With Nutrition". Betty Crocker has a great cookbook with recipes to help you through chemo/radiation. I believe it is called "Living with Cancer". I've also got a ton of Christina Pirello Macrobiotic cookbooks, some Sea Vegetable cookbooks.....

[Eileen]

Interesting about the Pet Scan---I have had two and they have not tested my sugar either time---

unless perhaps I did not know that they tested it---they did not take blood or anything prior to the pet scan---question, how do they test the sugar levels?

regards

[Hebbie]

Before the PET, they actually pricked my finger and did a quick blood sugar test (I guess the way they test blood sugar for diabetes?). It registered on the little machine in about 20 seconds. They specifically said they couldn't do the test if it was over 200.

[BoBennett]

Just wanted to pass on what I was told by my PCP. He said it was common for ER patients to have high glucose due to stress, he said ranging 130ish.And it falls quickly when the stress slows up, I think it would follow that a stressful lifestyle may affect this as well. . He agreed that anticipating an event shouldn’t cause it to be elevated. I still think it may have an effect. The old butterflies in the stomach are a flight or fight thing in my mind. A good hand wash is in order after eating mangoes before testing. I tested this tonight, definitely higher on the sticky fingers.

Thanks for the info Jane. I ate an apple, tomato and orange about an hour prior to testing

During the two PET scans I had I don’t recall a blood draw or finger stick. But I understood the same. If the level is too high the reschedule. However they may have gotten the sample when the IV was put in.

I am a banana eating machine and I’m happy a Costco run is happening tomorrow. Yea I think we all have our weaknesses but thankfully they are less offensive than they use to be. I use to be a hot dog eating machine.

Bo