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What Is Wrong with This Picture


luvmydog2

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My, how we change over time!

Let me just say that in such a spirited debate, I see more and more of you fabulous people come out, and it makes me appreciate you all even more.

We are a wonderfully diverse group of people in a wonderfully diverse country. May we forever have the chance to debate such things.

We may disagree on the premise, but not in the outcomes we all want to see. There is NO doubt about that.

Di

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I also agree with Ry. I taught freshmen for many years and learned one BIG thing from them (plus many other things) and that is this: those kids who had the shortest leashes in high school went the craziest in college. Not all, for sure, but a lot of them did go wild and some flunked out and got in a whole lot of trouble.

It does depend on the kid, I'm sure. My daughter doesn't smoke and never had friends who did. My son does and he had friends who did. Neither of them got in much trouble. None that I know of. And their leashes were pretty long when it came to most things.

Responsibility is something that is to be nurtured from within not imposed from without, IMO. My son did need more set boundaries when it came to homework and chores, but I learned that too late.

Well, I'll get back to Di in awhile cos I am ready for her. LOL.

elaine

ela

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Ha! Don't get me going on the preacher's kids...my best friend as a young teen was the preacher's daughter and man was she wild and she was still living at home! Her dad would hit her with a strap and it still didn't seem to make an impression on her.

Let me clarify...my kids are on a pretty tight leash, much tighter than most of their friends. I do know his friends, I pay attention to his conversations, I ask where he is going etc. but I am sure much gets past me. Tyler has a job, hockey practice etc that keep him pretty busy BUT he will risk doing something he knows he shouldn't do to impress his friends, unfortunately. He knows he will be grounded, he knows he will lose his car, but he will still turn around and pull some bone-headed move anyway.....maybe its boys (sorry Dave).

I should probably add he's not a bad kid no drugs, criminal behavior etc. he just doesn't make the best decisions sometimes.

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I guess I misspoke when it came to "short leash." I meant I didn't impose lots of needless restrictions on them, but I DID keep communication open and knew lots about their friends. They had restrictions, don't get me wrong. But not silly ones like I had as a kid--no school dances until I was 16? So by the time I was 16 I sure wasn't interested in school dances, if you know what I mean....

It was harder with my son becuase he wasnt as open about things.

elaine

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Ry - I don't think it is just boys.....I was on a tight leash and knew that there were dire consequences to my behavior BUT it didn't stop me - I smoked a little and drank a little more - I didn't get into trouble because I didn't get caught (except for once when my older brother ratted me out and me being the "MATURE" 16 yr old I was promptly ratted him out for having his girlfriend spend the night :o)

Ry is right about peer pressure - I did it because my friends (mostly boys)thought it was cool that I was a girl and could drink. I was a good kid overall - got good grades and worked etc etc so maybe I got away with a little more than I should have - so I know I am in for it when my girls get older - for as bad I was, my hubby was worse and our youngest is often referred to as Nonna's revenge (his mother) by his family - she is just like him only more compulsive.

So after rambling, I guess I have say in response to the wonderful debate - times are different and the only thing you can do is teach your kids morals and values and trust that they will be good kids but make 'em pay if they screw it up - not a lot of wisdom but my 2cents!

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Ry, my best friend in high school was a preacher's kid too! She had the reddest hair you could imagine, wore LOTS of makeup, had big, well, you know whats, and the boys loved her. I got into trouble with her a few times, but only by association. I wasn't allowed the freedom she was -- had to be home earlier, had the mileage checked on the car, etc. (that worked well until I learned how to unhook the speedometer cable so the miles wouldn't register, then hook it up again just before going home!)

When I was older and the 60s and late 70s came along, they started smoking funny stuff that just put me to sleep, so I stuck with the cigarettes. I made it all through that time without being ever hooked on any drugs. I probably smoked 10 years before I ever inhaled one.

When people come here and ask why some have cancer and still smoke, boy do I understand that. I made a different choice, but I can sure see how that crutch would be REALLY difficult to discard, especially in such a stressful time. It's the irony of it -- the smoking caused the problem, is still a problem, but also helps the person cope. Go figure.

Di

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IMO, this is a good debate. And an important one. There were people before us and those who will come after us who demand that we continue to debate such things that are important to our lives, IMO.

I think that, as usual, we have vastly different takes on the same issues, but we all share the same goals. No need to blow a gasket over it, it's just us being humans.

Di

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Hey guys:

Nice debate, not sure if I sparked it off or not..... :?::? As for the government, I agree with Elaine, for the most part. And while we are on the subject of government imposed bans, the city i live in does not allow any exotic dancers, xxxography and the like. It has all been banned as well, I have no problem whatsoever with it. I think that it is great. My kids do not have to deal with strip clubs etc. around the community. Stuff that I would not want them to see.

Cheers,

Deb

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Sorry if my last post sounded like I was "blowing a gasket." I did not mean for it to sound that way. I also think this is a good debate and am glad to see people taking part.

Like some of you, I also started at a young age. I started sneaking smokes at 12 yrs old. By 13 I had a part time job and was buying my own. Yes, buying my own. Not really a law on age in the 70's. Anyway, just wanted to say that I too think this is good debate.

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Ellac

The love of MONEY is the root of all evil. I do like a good discussion, but when the discussion veers off the topic, then I don't see the point of continuing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I know that the Tobacco companies are at least responsible for the demise of the citizens of this country and, in my opinion, no matter what, no 16 year old is mature enough to say no to tobacco. Today they said that 25% of all teenagers have had sex. It is also a fact that the human brain is not fully developed until about 22-23 years old. I personally work in a social service agency where babies are having babies. The last one I remember named her baby "heaven" backwards NEVAEH. You tell me that she is a responsible person. Of course, she smoked. She stood outside our building smoking at 9 months pregnant. The tobacco industry is responsible for killing thousands of people. There is no excuse for this. And the Government continues to allow this to happen. Yes, you are responsible for your choices, and yes everyone will die from something, but I truly resent the government PROFITING from my death.

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yes, i also don't know why government does allow it happen, we here Hong Kong is proposing to ban people smoking in public area such as restaurant, bar, karaoke etc.....because Hong Kong is a high density residential area. I can't wait it can be realized.

I hope cigarette can disappear in this world.

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Just to add to my opinion.

I deeply regret what I did as a 15 year old. Unfortunately, my mother had a stroke and was in a public hospital for a year when I was 15,. My father, who was, I'm sure, out of his mind at the time, had no idea how to be a good father and tell me not to smoke (this was 1969) . My brother was so heavily into drugs that he sold my mother's engagement ring. I deallth with hell as a teenager, but I kept it all together for my familes' sake. Anyway. i smoked because I was out of my mind. I didn't smoke pot as evweryone elese did in 1969, anwyay, to this day, I still think our government should outlaw drugs to help young children from becoming drug addicts (including tobacco addicts. by the way, nicotine isjust as adductive as heroine, yet the government aLLOWS IT TO BE SOLD.

Joanie

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I'm sure everyone had heard that Nicotine is more addictive than heroine. If anyone would like to continue this discussion rather than veer off to other sociological problems, please do so. I never started this discussion with the idea of letting it roam to child abuse. I think we should keep on course and talk about adult abuse by the government. No one answered as to where the money would come from if taxes ended as a result of cigrarettes disappearing. The governement would be at a loss, heh. No one has come up with an answer as to why the government allows the tobacco companies to "boost" their product with a product (nictoine) which they know full well will KILL its citizens. Tobacco is NOT INNOCENT. IT IS TOTALLY GUILTY of KILLING the citizens of the USA. Until we realize this and take them to task and TAKE THEM OUT OUT OF BUSINESS, IT WILL JUST CONTINUE.

YES, we are responsible for trying to KICK OUR ADDICTIONS, but I firmly believe that we should expect our government to protect and help us when it comes to drug addiction. Anyone who smokes is an addict. To have a government that supports an addiction is wrong. I still say a governement should be for the people. Yes, people are responsible for what they do, but government should not profit by their mistakes. And it makes me damn mad that, ok I will die of something, but I don't want to see anyone profit from my death, the government included.

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Sorry if my last post sounded like I was "blowing a gasket." I did not mean for it to sound that way. I also think this is a good debate and am glad to see people taking part.

Like some of you, I also started at a young age. I started sneaking smokes at 12 yrs old. By 13 I had a part time job and was buying my own. Yes, buying my own. Not really a law on age in the 70's. Anyway, just wanted to say that I too think this is good debate.

Remember when you were a kid and your dad would send you in to the store to buy cigarettes? Ack! My dad didn't do that to me, but my brother did - plenty of times!!

Gosh no. I didn't take your post like that -- not at all! But, it's only a "debate" if more than one point of view is welcomed. A "discussion" can be limited to one point of view, and it sounds like many in this forum prefer that, so that no one's feathers are ruffled. I can understand and respect that. Like I said before, I share the goal, I just don't agree with how we get there!

So, I guess we can get the fork for this one -- it appears to be done!

Di

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I started smoking soooooooo young about 12 and then by 15 addicted.

I thought I was so freakin cool and no one could get through my thick head. Well how cool am I now. And I haven't had a cig since dx. But if the truth be known I enjoyed smoking, and still miss it. I will never pick up another one and I have alittle more money each week.

My grandson who is 4 1/2 thinks smoking makes your hair fall out (because of my chemo) and I let him think it. Whatever works. He told

his pop-pop(my son-in-law's father) he would be his best friend if he quit smoking. I almost cried. He is so anti cigs. I pray he feels that way as

a teenager. Three people I'm close to quit smoking when they heard of

my dx. When people are ready they will quit and not one moment before. I totally resent that the gov't makes money off suffering. Alcohol is just as bad and probably kills more people between the liver

thing and car accidents.

So go figure!

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