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are "we who have lost" forever changed?


shelliemacs

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ok, today happens to be a bad day for me (fight with spouse, money worry, still under winters cold grip) but I wonder on these days.

Will simple joy ever come back to me? I base this on the fact that losing mom to LC in August of 03 then losing dad to LC in June 04m then sister getting cancer in June 04. I seem to have lost simple joy, ease of smiling, carefree laughter. I am always stressed, and always making lists of things I have to either stress over or take care of.

I can't relax. Nothing comes simply. I don't laugh easily with people. I don't just sit back and watch the clouds pass.

It is always in the back of my mind that I am 36 and even though I know people have always had it worse than me and always will. Both of my parents are gone. I will never get to ask mom her opinion again, I will never turn to my dad for car repairs again. I won't be able to take my parents to sunday dinner in their twiligth years like my parents did with their parents.

I wan't life to be simple again, I want to wake up without this feeling. its not all sadness, or grief or depression, its like a "something is ultimately and forever going to be different and I can't do anything about it" feeling.

is this how it will always be. won't simple happiness without trying ever come back. will I always feel "lost" in a world of other people who still have there parents?

I know I have to get over this. Most days I am fine. but today, today its hitting me again that my parents are laying under dirt on top of a hill with a stone marking who they were and here is where their bodies are laying. When I go to the cemetary I just want to dig so I can physicially see them. I want to shake them awake, I want them to butt into my life again and share unwanted advice or opinions. I want my mom to critisize my hair style or my clothes again. I want my dad to tell me I am a neurotic freak again and to stop taking life to seriously.

I know everyone here, patient and caregiver have lost in their lives. so everyone can chime in on this, WHEN OR DOES LIFE EVER FEEL LIKE LIFE AGAIN?

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Thank you for sharing this here. I think you are right; we have all experienced a loss, though maybe not as sudden and complete as what you have dealt with.

I think the loss does forever change us. There will never be another day that will be what it would have been if Becky or your parents were here. But they can be even better. We can live life with a greater passion, with more purpose and meaning, loving more and expressing it better than ever because we have seen how short and precious this time is.

One of the things I realized in January is that I like me more than I ever have. I have a depth I had never known, resources I have never exploited. I am more emotional, more passionate, more expressive than ever before in my life. For a time, I felt a little guilty about that. Why couldn't Becky see it? (The simple answer is that she always did, hence that marriage ceremony a few years ago. But even still, why didn't I display them more clearly for her?)

But I didn't choose for Becky to die. What I can do is to learn everything I can from that experience and consolidate it into my life. Live today more fully like me than ever before.

The days will never be the same. But they can be better. And there will always be good ones and bad ones - like John Denver crooned, "Some days are diamonds; some days are stones." It is not easy; you need to give yourself space to grieve and hurt and reflect and consolidate the meaning your parents had in your life. I wish I had more specific advice. Your feelings are normal, and the one thing I want to give you is hope that there is another side of this.

Smother that fight with your spouse in the affection you have for each other. Just love on each other so much the fight becomes meaningless. (Easier said than done, I know.) Make him give you the hug you desperately need. Or come down to Texas; you can escape the cold and get a hug at the same time.

Curtis

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Shellie, my heart aches for you. I wish I could just give you a big hug and make it all better for you, but I know I can't. Your feelings are normal and you have every right to them. I do know Someone who can ease the pain, who can provide you comfort, and yes, even give back that joy again. I'm praying that the Lord would just wrap His loving arms around you and give you such peace and comfort. He loves you so much and will never leave you. I'm praying for you. Feel free to pm me to 'talk' whenever.

Love and ((hugs))

Christy

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Oh Shelly, thanks for sharing your feelings. You have said so much of exactly what I am feeling! I used to be a carefree, always laughing, happy go lucky. Now I don't know where that person is and whether or not she will ever come back.

I am tired of waking up and just dragging through the days (yes there are good ones too). But I was talking to my husband the other day and said it is like waking up with this "bad taste" in my mouth that I can't ever get out. I feel I was handed a life that I don't want and now I am trying to figure out what to do with it. I so miss the maternal nurturing and love. I miss that my mom passed away before my daughter was even two. I can't stand the thought that she will never see her grow.

Sometimes it just hits me like a brick that she is gone. I hear other gals my age complaining about their moms and the relationships and I think, "then why my mom". We had the best relationship and now she is gone. When others can't stand to see their moms more than twice a year. I loved to see my mom daily.

Somehow we learn to trudge along and with time I am sure the pain eases and we become accustomed to our new "normal". At least this is my hope. I watched Dana Reeve (Christopher Reeve's wife) speak the other day on TV and she spoke of her grief and how she thought she was "fine" and then it just hit her smack in the face.

Shelly, you are not alone. Big hugs to you. I wish I could take away your pain. I am here if you need to talk.

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Shelly, you have had a lot of grief these past few years. It takes time to heal. I lost both parents within a year when I was 24-25. As long as you want things to go back to the way they were, I doubt that you will feel joy. For me, it was accepting what is and moving on to a different life without them, but definitely worth it because I had much to give and much to receive. Simple joy will come when you are ready to move on. I wish you well. Don

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I love this quote from Don,

For me, it was accepting what is and moving on to a different life without them, but definitely worth it because I had much to give and much to receive. Simple joy will come when you are ready to move on.

You're not alone, Shellie. I've felt alot like you about losing my dad. The why's and the grieving. I grieve his loss and the unfairness of it all and then I grieve the loss of the person I was before LC was a reality in our lives. And then sometimes I am jealous of the people I see who are carefree and laughing and enjoying life to the fullest. Sometimes when we are out to dinner and I see a younger couple Rick & my age, with their parents- both of them, laughing and sharing their adulthoods together....I have to look away.

I miss the old me too...but the new me is a little wiser, and loves my family more-- It's hard to be carefree or experience joy in the little things- I don't think I have been able to do that in about 2 1/2 years, but I'm trying.

I hate that two months after my dad died, my daughter was born. He never knew of her or that her middle name is his- or ever see her grow up or see my son grow either.

Everyone's magic word is TIME. And I hope, and part of me knows, that they are right. Like Don says, "accepting and moving onto a different life" and like Curtis says, "loving more and expressing it better than ever because we have seen how short and precious this time is."

All these replies to your post are right and come from the heart- you've got alot of friends here. Try to surround yourself with people who love you and understand, plan fun and fullfilling things to do in your life and know that it is ok to have days like these. We all have them. And we are all here for you.

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I cannot tell you how much I identify with what you said. My older brother called me yesterday and expressed almost exactly what you said. He said, "Where is that guy I was before all this started? I want to be him again. Is he gone forever?"

I told my brother that, in a way, we feel like we have had the foundation of our lives removed. Mom and Dad were there when we were born. They were our history, our touchstones, our mentors and guides on what to do (and not do). They were our nurturers. Mom was loving, giving, and openly nurturing. Dad nurtured in a very different way. We didn't always feel unconditional love from him, but we always felt deeply connected. We always knew that even if we fought or didn't like some things about each other, Dad would answer when we cried, and we would respond when he needed us. It was a deep understanding that made us feel like part of a chain of connectedness from generation to generation and on to the generations that come after us.

No wonder we feel lost. Of course, our foundation is still there, deep in the essence of who we are. But we don't FEEL grounded yet, so we feel a bit disconnected from who we are right now. In a way, we are redefining our self images as orphans instead of daughters and sons.

You are under more stress than anyone I know. With your sister's cancer, you have not had the time and internal space to focus on yourself, to find the time to sort through everything. It's almost as if you are grieving beneath the conscious mind because your conscious mind has all it can do just to cope with what's happening right now. That has to extend the grieving and sorting process.

Life will be good again, but I am beginning to think it will be good in a totally different way. You will laugh again. And you will be changed by all you have experienced. But then YOU will be the foundation for the generations to come because of the strength you have acquired.

In the meantime, find small joys, if you can. On days when the sun shines, stand at the window, close your eyes, and forget that it's winter. Go to an art museum, find a bench in a quiet part, and just sit for 10 minutes. Whatever it takes to give you breathing room inside.

Sorry for going on and on. You are such an amazing person, and you deserve joy. Spring is coming, both literally AND figuratively!

Pam

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Shelley,

I can't explain things any better than those before me. All I can do is tell you that at some point in time it will happen....when you are open to it. Peace and serenity will sneak in when you least expect it. May last only a moment or two at first. But when it does remember to allow yourself to feel it.

I always believed that the first step in recovering from any hardship is to tell yourself it's okay for you to smile again.

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I do appreciate all the replies and I know Don is right. I am not allowing myself to move on yet. I know it. I fight moving on. I bought my parents house. I live amoung their neighbors and best friends. I am living their lives still.

I guess that is why I have not left this board as some do after there loved one passes. I can't get away from the family that LC brought me too. Odd how a 6 letter word changed who I am, what I am about and how I live and think forever. I am a different person since cancer came into it. We all are different people. we have seen the ugly side of existance and for just one moment to be ignorant to its ugliness or oblivious to what it does to families ... boy what I would not give for that.

I will find my way back to me, it just won't be the old me I'm afriad. How can any of us go back to who we were before cancer. It not only destroys our loved ones, it kills a part of us as well.

**side note. I have stopped anti-depressants to try to be amoung the un-medicated again. me thinks it is not the time to go off them just yet.

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My heart was breaking for you as I read your posting. God, I hate it when people are feeling so sad. The fact that you're able to describe your feelings to the friends you've made on this site may in itself help to lighten your burden. Sometimes just venting will help.

Secondly, and maybe more importantly, go back on the meds! Life is a big enough struggle when you're having to deal with so much. Make it easier on yourself. At particularly stressful times in our lives, anything that helps us feel better is where I like to go.

A little too much white wine on occasion does the trick right now for me. But I have been on antipressants at times when live didn't appear to be worth living.

I hope the responses you've received have helped you to know that many, many people care and would love to give you hug today!!!

Janet

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Shelly,

I can only imagine the pain you are going through, I wish I had magic words to make it all go away.

I know that this is giong to sound selfish since I have not yet suffered a great loss like so many of you, but I too find it hard to be my old self and I find that I am always on edge, I get jealous when I see people acting too happy and carefree, I don't understand why people complain over such petty things and get super upset over issues that are not important, etc. I am not sure why I am not my normal self, but I am not, and I too sometimes wonder if I ever will be, or if this is how i will remain forever.

Take care of yourself and I hope you feel a little bit better soon!

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Dear Shelly,

I can't really add anything to the wisdom that others have put in response to your post, but I can add my sympathy, and empathy, and..and..and...well, you know. Do give those meds another try; you helped your parents and you've helped your sister. You mustn't deprive yourself of the help you need.

And do keep on with us, your new extended family now. Things will never be the same; they aren't for anyone on this forum, including those who are beating the demon but who are still changed for ever (Don's the "new now"); but, as others have said, they can be good again, and they will. And just like winter will eventually move on, so will your life, picking up new springs and new hopefulness -- transmuting the legacy that your parents have left for you into something that will help you gain the strength to go on without them being there as you would have liked them to be, in person, but there still, a vibrant part of you forever. I believe it's ok to be sad; if you weren't, it would be true denial; but real joy still lies ahead and will be even more meaningful after the sadness.

Love,

Ellen

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Shellie -

Everyone has given you good answers to your questions. I agree with it all, and I can also say "yes, you will feel joy again." It does happen with or without your wanting it. You just plow on and someday -- a long time from now -- you will realize that without even noticing it, your focus has gradually turned to the life you are now living and not such constant yearning for what was.

My son died in 1989, and I can't even begin to tell you when I finally realized that his birthday just brings a smile and no pain or when the anniversary of his death started slipping by unnoticed, but it did happen. The process was verrrryyy slow and gradual and of course it's now back somewhat because it's tied up with my husband's death 17 months ago.

As to whether or not you should stop anti-depressants, I don't know an answer for that, but I do think that whenever you take that step, you should expect some sort of side effects of the withdrawal. You may just need to give the body a chance to adjust. I didn't take anti-depressants, but I was on Xanax for anxiety at first and had some hard days when I weaned myself off it, but I was realizing that even though it got me through the day and allowed me to talk calmly to people, it also gave me a false sense that everything was ok, and so the importance of things didn't register and I lived in an unreal world. Everybody reacts differently and I believe in meds when they're needed -- just discuss it with your doctor and let him/her help make the decision.

Curtis, what a great post. I'm sure Becky did see all that was good in you more clearly than you ever did yourself, and probably a part of why you didn't demonstrate some of those things as much before was because Becky was doing it and you were standing back allowing her to shine in those areas. Now, you've stepped up to fill the need.

Shellie, you've had way more than your share of sorrow. Try and be kind to yourself and just allow yourself to feel what you feel.

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Several thoughts came to mind--

9/11 occurred 5 months after my surgery, and less than a week after I returned to work. That hit me hard. I was glued to the TV, and expecially the interviews that followed with Oprah and Dr Phil. That is when I heard the phrase "NEW NORMAL". That helped me immensely. Life had changed dramatically after my third cancer. The post lung cancer was my "new normal".

I saw a Dr Phil once, way back, when he was helping parents who lost children tragically. He told one mother basically "Would your son want you to remember the one tragic day, or the 11 years that occurred before that day?

And yes, I saw Dana Reeve on several shows, and I was empowered by her honesty.

Our monster just has a name, and it's name is cancer.

Thank you for your honesty and courage in sharing.

gail

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What a mess!

My Grandparents meant the world to me and when they died, I too lived in their house for 8yrs. The last place I saw my G-Father lay while they worked to bring him back never had a piece a furniture placed there (we walked around that spot). I kept the chair that he died in for 9yrs.

Almost two years ago I moved from that house and got rid of the chair......I was then dx with LC, I often wonder if I was protected there.....in their home, where they physically died, where their spirits still may remain. Was it safe there? If I still lived there would I be cancer free? Has my dx been punishment for leaving them?

I still grieve for them everyday, I beg them to help me, to cure me, I grieve for myself. Grieve for the loss of what I use to be before dx. I am not ready to give up on them yet but have started to "recover" is that the word? I can only hope that they can pull me through this one. I don't want to "see" them badly enough to leave my babies.

Keep your chin up, make up with your spouse and smile....the sun will come out again and even for a brief moment you will forget and be happy (if only for a minute!) :cry::wink:

One minute of happiness, one smile :wink:

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I think good feelings come back eventually, a little bit at a time. When my sister died, I thought I'd never have a normal day with run of the mill happiness ever again. But, gradually, the sadness, while it was still there, gets a little distant and goes to the background a little more every day and you laugh again and have fun, and don't think about the sad things all the time.

And yes, there are steps backward to more sadness, I guess when other things don't seem to be going right either, and birthdays come and happy occasions and sad occasions come and go without them, but it does get better. It's still there and it will always still be there, but it gets better.

I'm envious of the women I know who can talk to their sisters still, and go to lunch and shop all afternoon just like my sister and I did so many times when she was still alive, but I'm grateful for the time we did have together.

I'm sad that my mother and the rest of my family were damaged beyond repair by the loss of my sister all those years ago and there's not a lot I can do anymore to make it all better.

Shellie, you've been hit with a lot in the last few years. It's going to take some time to get some sense of normalcy. Guard your relationship with your sister and your husband with your life--they are the people who 'get it'. And let some time heal your sadness about your parents. It will start to feel better.

Take care,

Cindy

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Oh, my how I wanted to reply to this thread yesterday when I first saw it....but I had a port put in in the morning so had to scuttle out of here and was sort of in a fog, the rest of the day. I needed a clearer head to reply. Let's hope I have one, now.

will find my way back to me, it just won't be the old me I'm afriad. How can any of us go back to who we were before cancer. It not only destroys our loved ones, it kills a part of us as well.

**side note. I have stopped anti-depressants to try to be amoung the un-medicated again. me thinks it is not the time to go off them just yet.

Shelley honey, so many of the things that happen in life change us, that the most honest thing MOST of us can say is that we are continually in flux. Changing all the time....never to return to that person we were a week ago, or last year. Like layers of onion skin, our experiences mold us subtly day by day....but it is the major life events that eventually open our eyes to some of these changes and shifts, I think.

You had an awful lot happen to you in such a short span of time...that most of us cannot imagine how you coped. But you have coped...and are still coping. You sort of answer your own questions above, with the quote I included. Perhaps, for now too...you need to consider staying on the meds. Take it slower, in trying to get off of them.

You feel that cancer has killed a part of you, too....but in it's place it's left a new layer of Shelley. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger! I've always loved that quote and it sounds true and right to me.

You're strong, Shel. Stronger than you know....but that doesn't mean it's not alright to feel weak, sometimes. To need the help of others. To mourn your losses still....or again. Losses snowball. And I still know that something could happen tomorrow or next week that will make me grieve and mourn all over again, the loss of my own parents, sister, aunts, cousins, due to that snowball effect. (Today, BTW, is my father's birthday. He'd be.....get this.....104 years old. :shock: He was 45 when I was born! Happy Birthday, Daddy!!)

Anyway, honey....I may still be in a mental fog here and not have made much sense...but others here have spoken such cogent, wise words. It does get easier with time....we DO refind our sense of joy in life, and fun....but yes, the losses and layers continue. It's part of life.

There is a Ralph Waldo Emerson quote I also love. It's supposedly about integrity....but to me, it also speaks to strength and courage. I'll close this with that quote:

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

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Shelly,

My heart breaks for you. You have lost so much in your young life.

I loss my dad five yrs. ago and I still miss him sooo much. Grief is an

awlful thing. Six yrs. ago my best girlfriend lost her daughter in a car

accident that she witnessed. She will never be the same. I moved next store to her to help out with her other four children. (She's a single parent). One which was critically hurt in the same accident. I have never witnessed such sadness and grief. Four yrs. later she was there for me when I was dx. She took care of me after my surgery. (She's an RN). The loss of a child is the worst thing I think that can happen to someone. I thank God every day my family is safe. I am not mininizing your grief or mine. But her grief helped me heal the lost of my dad and my dx of lc. I don't know what my point is, I'm just trying to express that everyone has some king grief issues. Some a stronger than others. I try every day to find positive things to get me through. I will be praying for you to find happiness again. And hopefully it will be soon.

Take care.

Mare

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i appreciate so much all of the help, support and care I receive here on this site from everyone of you.

Today isn't any better emotionially yet. I am thinking of my mom constantly (no particular moment) and my dads last few days today. I wanted so hard to save them. I cried in the shower a little while ago because I can't comprehend how scared they were on the days they found out they had cancer and when they realized they would die. I just can't come to grips with not being able to help them.

I know its because I am trying to come off my anti-depressants though. I got like this before when I went off them for a week. Now I want to try to not take that extra pill every day so I am hoping all these emotions will pass soon. I want to remember and smile instead of cry behind closed doors so my sister doesn't see me cry anymore. I know she is scared enough with her own cancer.

I am not ready to come off the anxiety meds yet. That may be a while.

hopefully after I can get the lexapro out of my system all these sad feelings will go away, if not I will go back on them.

I just wanted to thank you all again, you will never know how much I adore every one of you.

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Hi Shelly,

Why do you feel you have to come off the antidepressants? Stay on

them so you can help your sister. The time will come when you can come off them without all the pain still in the background. Your lucky you

can take them. I've tried several different kinds and have allergic reactions to everyone of them so I had to fight the battle on my own.

Take a pill if it helps. I also cry in the shower so no one can hear. I

think that's more common than you think. Hold you head up and hang

tough girl. Good luck.

Mare

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Hi Shelley,

I lost my father to SCLC 14 years ago and like you for along time I would feel the same way about going to the cemetary and digging, I would think about it so hard sometimes my head would hurt - I so badly needed to see him.

Although, things like that never completely go away they do get less frequent.

I understant what you mean about not having either parents, my cousin lost her mom and dad at a pretty early age and I could not get it out of my mind for along that she had no parents.

I know your joy will come back, it will just take some time.

Good Luck, you are in my thoughts.

Carrie

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Shelly, see Sharons post (under medium) and you will see that your parents are not under dirt, physically yes, but spiritually no. They are very much around you. They are together, and you probably are feeling this way, because your grieving has brought them to you.

Please know that they are together and are really fine. They would not want you to keep grieving over them. They would want you to go on and know how precious life is. And enjoy every minute of it.

When your time comes, they will be there to help you with the transistion.

I wish you would believe, it would make it so much easier on yourself and on them.

Please take care of yourself, I am worried about you.

Maryanne

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Shelly

I have not responded to this thread because I can in no way comprehend what you have been thru or even how you continue to go on everyday. I so admire you. But I have just not known what i could possibly say to help you. You do have my prayers.

Now something I do know quite abit about is anti-depressants. Please think again about continuing to take them. They are not bad for you, they are not addicting (some say different) i do think they have a withdrawel though, and they do work. Are you ashamed to have to take them? What has made you feel that taking 1 extra pill is too much? I have been on and off anti-depressents for 12yrs. and I like you have quit taking them before, sometimes just because i was tired of taking them, sometimes because I had no insurance (like now) and could not afford them (I get samples now) and even "i dont need them anymore". I have learned that I do need them. There are people who can take them for a few months to get thru a tough time and never need them again. Then there are those that 'Need" them for alot longer. The need for these drugs is because of a chemical imbalance in your brain, a shortage of serotonin(sp). If for some reason you are not producing this on your own you need extra help to do the job.

There are numerous different kinds of drugs and drs now seem to just prescribe what ever has just come out on the market or whatever sales rep just left his office. But if you feel like you are taking a pill and not getting results from it, then have your dr try a new one, or an old one. Sometimes newer is not always better. The side effects can sometimes be very annoying,but can usually be worked out with the correct anti-depressant. I also had a very high anxiety level. I took valium for many yrs expecially after my husband died. Used to get bad bad panic attacks. I do not any longer need these anxiety meds, somehow I have learned to cope and deal with the situation without them. My mom never understood this. Why when I would panic I couldnt just tell myself stop it ok. Now since her dx she has had the same attacks maybe worse. She understands now, and has said she was sorry so many times for not getting it. She takes xanax faithfully everyday along with a low dose of paxil and it seems to help. Paxil has a property in it that deals with anxity as well. I took that for yrs but it doesnt seem to do the trick for me anymore. I tried zoloft awhile, but now take wellbutrin xr. I am not really depressed but i certainly do not run around singing and dancing either. I am not sure realy how an anti-depressent should make you feel. I dont think i can remember what "normal"was. I have many manymore issues in my life than my mom's cacner that i deal with daily. I know i have to take something just to keep me going, there is noway I could have dealt with all my moms treatments and appointments and just being here caregiver had I not been taking an anti-depressent.

There almost seems to be a stingma about anti-depressents. I bet if everyone was honest and told, you would find alot more people than you think that take them or even wish they could take them. I need someone to invent a "no worry" pill. If I dont have something to worry about, somethings wrong. which this in turn causes stress which leads to depression. its all a visious(sp) cycle.

Anyway I dont know if anyting I said makes sense or even helps. It's ok to stay on these pills, do not be in any hurry to toss them. In my case, i know this is something i need to be on, maybe for alot longer as I do not see myself becoming worry-free.

One other thing, if you can see a counslor or someone you can talk too it really really helps. It is common to see many people on anti depressents talking with a counselor,phyciatrist(sp), etc...

You have come along way, hang in there, it will get better.

God bless

Kim

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Shelly, I had a second thought that may help for now or for later. Share your thoughts with your parents by writing them a letter. I did this and found it very helpful in getting on.

My parents died when I was in my early twenties. I married soon after, and, over the years, we were blessed with three children. I was in a workshop on families one weekend, and the leader said to me, "You look sad. What is going on with you?" I said, "I am not sure." Then as I talked I realized sharing about families made me aware that my children and my parents would never know each other, and I was saddened in my heart at that. The leader said, "Write your parents a letter and tell them about your kids." I did that, and actually mailed it to the cemetary with no return address. Just writing the letter helped me work through it. And, I began sharing more things about my parents to my kids so I could take care of that side of the coin as well.

I wish you peace and joy. Don

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