Was Reading at ABC we "should have known"

[Donna G]

Here is a site that decribes the history of tobacco awareness.

http://www.rjrt.com/smoking/awareTimeline12.aspx

Believe me when I was a young teenager there was no warning on a pack of cigarettes.

Most young teenagers wouldn't believe it referred to them anyhow, they are infalable.

Donna G

PS this is a pack of cigarettes sold prior to 1965, notice, no warning. ( I can't believe anyone would buy it!)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... ategory=44

[Larry]

Donna as a person who started smoking in 1958 untill 2000 i can assure you we all new the danger's of smoking. We would call them cancer stick's or a nail in the old coffin and other's i've forgotten. So why did we smoke well the fact's are for most of us it was showing everyone how cool we were or just being defiant. Our biggest influence to smoking for most of us i believe had to be Hollywood. I mean John Wayne smoked and i can recall very few people who starred in Movies who did not smoke in there film's. I'll bet you if you ask most people today if they read the labeling on Ciggarette pack's which in my mind is a liberal feel good idea or wishful thinking you'll find out most people do not really read it or read it one time and it does not effect them.I recall very vividly thinking when they announced there would be warning's put on cig pack's and talking with other people about it and most said the same thing just more stupid goverment ideas. But the fact remain's i never heard or know of anyone who quit smoking because of the warning on cig pack's. You know it is so easy to judge thing's done in the past you know the old 20 20 hind vision. Your remark where i can not believe anyone smoked after the warning's were placed is no different than saying i can't believe anyone drove while intoxicated, it's not the smartest thing's done but being the human's we are what does one expect as we do live in a country where we still have some freedom's of choice and we all must face our own result's of our action's good or bad.

[SDianneB]

My dad became a country doctor (he called himself a "horse & buggy" doctor) in the early 1930s. When he went to medical school, and until he died in 1975 every symposium he attended discussed the dangers of tobacco. (I guess the former Surgeon General, Dr. Koop missed those classes.)

Anyway, most doctors smoked then, himself included. They had figured out that at the very least, tobacco use caused circulatory problems, and when he began experiencing those, he quit - just stopped one day and never smoked again.

They didn't know all they do today about the dangers of tobacco (and it isn't just smoking cigarettes) but they knew plenty, and as he used to say, if a person can't tell after smoking a while why they shouldn't have that gunk inside them, then the medical profession isn't going to be able to convince them, nor is writing on the side of the pack.

I knew better. Every step of the way. I made my own choices -- a bad one when it came to smoking. It's almost like living near a nuclear power plant -- you know the dangers, but take the risk anyway, because "nothing will happen to me." You may be right -- until the day comes when something does happen to you.

There are a lot of people out there who will listen more to an ad on radio or television than when their doctor tells them to stop smoking, exercise, eat right, etc. When the chickens come home to roost, IMO, we have to pony up and take responsibility for picking up the first cigarette.

Di (putting on full body armor for this one)

[Donna G]

You are younger than I am.

My Dad was a police officer and Mom was a sectretary/typist.

I went to Nursing school when you were in the 5th grade. The patients smoked at their bedside and the doctors smoked at the nurses station.

It didn't take me long to figure out cigarettes were not good for me. My problem was I was really already addicted. I am a professional quiter! I quit nearly every day for years! Sometimes for months and a trigger would come my way and I would think maybe just one --- then there I was again.

I am happy to tell you it is 8 years since I had a cigarette, I continue to teach anyone who will listen to quit or better yet never start.

Most probably like most you were a kid when you started. You also did not even think of anything in the long term consequences. Most likely the nicotine soon took over and made your brain believe it was better because you had it, it increases dopamine and that is convincing.

I also continue to dream at night that I am smoking! Thankfully those dreams don't come as often recently.

[Fay A.]

Not everyone was well informed, and just because a segment of the population was well informed does not mean everyone in the country had access to the same information.

Once upon a time I did an exhaustive search on the tobacco warning time line. I lost that file in a computer crash several years ago. But one of the things that I did learn during my research is that though there was much discussion and many recommendations for Public Policies about tobacco use and specific warnings, they were not followed through. I would give a great deal to be able to pull the brief I wrote on the topic (it sited all the sources I used), because in many instances during the 60s, 70s the issue came before the Legislature as to both publication of and enforcement of regulations requiring tobacco use warnings, but was voted AGAINST by the Representatives in office at the time.

I had relatives who could not read nor write. I had family who were poor, and who did not own a television or radio. No one told them smoking was harmful. They didn't hear about it on the news, and they didn't read it in a newspaper because they couldn't. And there were many such people in the Deep South.

In the early 1960s I was a little girl, and my Mom had a medical appointment. She had to take me with her (no sitter). I sat in the chair next to her as the Physician told my Mother that she was "too high strung" and that was the reason for her weight loss, and that she should learn to smoke (he demonstrated how, even blowing a few smoke rings), and drink 2 Beers each night.

I cannot tell you how many times while I was growing up I heard adults state "Our Government would NOT allow the sale of cigarettes if they were truly harmful." And I heard it from Smokers and Nonsmokers. And they truly believed it to be so.

[SDianneB]

What I learned from my dad wasn't about being warned, but recognizing the dangers in what I wanted to ingest. Most people I knew who smoked also coughed. Ick. I didn't see many quit, because they were addicted and couldn't quit. I knew with no uncertainty that smoking was a bad thing, because it was one of those "forbidden" things by the parents of all my friends, as well as myself.

Fay, IMO, it wasn't about widespread information as much as it was about just plain old common sense. At least that's the way my dad put it to me. Unfortunately, I didn't listen to him or the numerous people back then who told us not to smoke,because I was young and feisty and knew better than any of the adults, of course.

When my dad was a youngster (he was born in 1905) people smoked, but there was a big difference -- they also worked 15 hour days on the farm where he came from, and didn't have time to sit around and smoke -- they'd have a pipe in the corner of their mouth mostly, but it took some time to sit down and roll a cigarette and then smoke it, so they didn't actually ingest as much tobacco. Along with the American "easier way of life," came more leisure time to actually smoke like fire engines. And after they smoked a few years and couldn't stop, I'd think the "Duh" light would have gone off in someone's head that it was addictive.

This is one of those things that the government can't and won't protect people from, IMO. Nor should they.

Di

[Fay A.]

The folks I'm thinking of were working in the farming industry (farmers cough a lot...dust from grain, dust from plowing), the textile industry (textile workers cough a lot...lots of chemicals, and particulate matter in making whole cloth), the wood cutting and woodworking industry (wood dust makes you cough), and the marble mining industry (mining and working stone results in a lot of dust...which makes you cough). Different reality from working in a classroom or medical office. These folks were doing work that made everyone cough a lot...including the young, nonsmoking children working the fields and mines and factories along side the adults.

[SDianneB]

People didn't know what asbestos would do. Or thalidiomide. Ingestion of alcohol with certain drugs. Smoking and/or alcohol use during pregnancy.

Again, there's a big difference in sitting in an office all day smoking, and working in the fields where you can't stop and smoke as much. Lo and behold, they came up with something to solve that problem too -- chewing tobacco.

I'm not saying everyone knew, I'm saying that if common sense didn't tell people that what they were inhaling just might have had something to do with their cough, and that there was a reason they couldn't quit, then no amount of government intervention or education was likely to do much good.

The more things change, the more things stay the same. People were not only warned but told to evacuate New Orleans days before it became critical to do so, yet several hundred thousand stayed anyway. Go figure.

Di

[Donna G]

Actually my parents, although they never went to college, were avid readers. We went to the library every week and they checked out a stack of books. I can picture in my mind my mother curled up in a chair with a good book and a cigarette.

I am positive,however, they never read the American Journal of Medicine or Publications by the American Cancer Society Etc.. They may have read an article if it was published in the Readers Digest. We got TV when I was 5. We never subscibed to magazines for they were too expensive. Besides there were lots of books at the library.

[SDianneB]

Doctors knew, in spite of what Dr. Koop used to say so often. Many doctors told their patients not to smoke, and it fell on deaf ears. Many doctors smoked. And yes, I remember hospitals where everyone smoked like fire engines. And doctors offices, labs, etc.

Who told us that morbid obesity was bad for us? Did we understand that because we had a hard time getting around, joint problems, blood pressure through the roof, diabetes in droves, heart attacks,etc.?

My point is just this -- in order to induce someone, especially a young person, to not smoke or to stop smoking, I don't think it helps the matter by slipping in some excuses and justifications for them -- as in "I smoked, but started before anyone knew it was so harmful." That just builds in an excuse. To look someone right square in the eye though, and just say "It was my choice - a bad one. And here's what happened to me as a result." carries more of a punch.

They didn't call them "cancer sticks" for nothing.

Di

[Ann]

I'm not a smoker but just wanted to throw in something that came to mind while reading all your posts. I think that everyone thinks that something "bad" will never happen to them, regardless. I think that in spite of all the information about harm from cigarette smoking, many people will just have the attitude ...it won't happen to me...and go on lighting up. I think that our society consiste with the mentality that everything bad always happens to someone else.

[SDianneB]

Ann, I agree. There are many facets to all this, and smoking is only one. An important one, but just one of many.

Since this all started for me, I've dug and dug and researched and researched to find treatments, protocols, articles, etc. It occurred to me one day that had I spent that much time concerned about my health for the past 20 years, I might not be in the spot I'm in today.

My choice, my decision. A bad one. I'm living with it, and trying to survive as long as I can. So are all the people who never smoked and who are in the same boat.

I think we all agree that no matter what, no one deserves cancer - NO ONE. No matter what kind. And we're all here together to try and battle it in our own way, along with the misconceptions. My way involves no looking back and no excuses for my poor choices. To each his/her own.

Di

[SDianneB]

I don't know what "those people" in quotes means, but the people in New Orleans who had cars and the ability to evacuate, but just didn't believe a hurricane would hit learned a big lesson, huh. Denial can be a wonderful thing to hide behind, and it's so handy.

One doesn't exclude the other. A number of factors combine to cause circumstances, and circumstances have consequences - always. Sometimes good, sometimes not.

Did anyone else who smoked have that "uh oh - I got caught" feeling in the pit of their stomach when they were told "you have lung cancer?" I sure did. For a reason. But, forgiving myself is part of the deal, I think, so I had to do that in order to move on. That, and quit smoking at long last, in an effort to assist my treatment and the healing process.

Please don't take my words and apply them to each and every person and each and every circumstance. That's rather misleading, and I think most people know where I'm coming from with this, whether or not they agree.

Di

[Donna G]

You just reminded me of an incident when I was a young teenager. I had not "shared" with my mother that I was smoking cigarettes. I was in a corner restaurant after school with a few of my friends and we had a coke and sat and lit up. I looked up toward the door and their was my mother coming into the place. I dropped the cigarette on the floor and tried to act casual.

My mother came over and said she had been shopping , could she join us. -Sure- She sat down and took out her cigarettes and handed one to me!

She said she had seen me and didn't want me to be sneaking around , wanted it out in the open.

Do you really think my mother would have handed me a cigarette if she thought I would get cancer?

[SDianneB]

Katie, we have several thousand of them here too, many of which want to stay, and we're glad to have them. At least some of them said to TV reporters that they should have taken the warnings more seriously, but really didn't think it would hit them so hard. And it didn't really -- it was mostly the levees and the flood waters where they were.

Donna, my dad said that if I was intent on smoking, I might as well not hide it. Maybe that was at least part of what your mother was saying to you. Maybe she knew you were smoking, and had known it for a while. She may have even thought it would take away some of the mystique if you knew that she knew, so it wasn't your "secret" any longer. I have no clue -- I don't know your mom or you personally. Why hide it from her if no one thought there was anything wrong with it anyway?

Lots of fathers give their 13 year old sons guns for Christmas as sort of a "rite of passage" thing too -- how many do you think regret that when something horrible happens with that gun?

I'm not pointing a finger at you personally, I'm just trying to say that I don't believe it's accurate to place all the blame on the government and/or the tobacco companies, when it's the humans who are the ones who succumb. We have at least some culpability ourselves. To what extent that is will, of course, vary from person to person. A cigarette, a gun, a bottle of vodka on the coffee table are all 100% harmless, until that moment that a human being takes possession of it, then watch out.

Di

[jcawork]

I am still stuggeling with this even after dx. Its been very tough for me. It has also been tough that we have MANY LC members who still smoke, but are not forthcoming about on the board because xsmokers can be pretty hard lined about the whole nightmare. How do I knwo this? They have told me privetly. There are many!

It is also important to mention that not 100% of all smokers get LC. I can't remember the exact % but I was surprised as its actually pretty low. I think it was like 15%. That also helps to drive home the "it will never happen to me" feeling that helps the denial.

I have small cell. I am also young for LC. I also had a few very serious exposures (asbestos and radon). I think there must be some differences with the smokers who do get LC and who dont get LC but I don't know what they are. I am the only person for generations ever to have LC in my family. I come from a long line of hard smoking and drinking Irish. So, why me and not the other heavy smoking relatives I have that smoked til they were 80 and never had a problem? What made me different? Hopefully, they will learn more because its not just the smoking.

Jen

[SDianneB]

Jen, you speak the truth. Who knows who gets picked out of thousands to be struck with this awful disease? No one knows for sure -- not yet anyway. I think I read where that number is 23% or something -- percentage of smokers who will get lung cancer. The number is about double that, as I recall, for heart disease.

Even when people know the dangers, they sometimes choose to continue the risky behavior. We are all just mere mortals - humans. That's what we do. As wonderful as we can all be, we can still be exasperating and screw up now and then!

I had a conversation with the woman behind the counter at the post office today -- she had breast cancer early this year, and her sister had it last year. We were having a talk about that and lung cancer, and both decided that we'd like a cure for ALL types of cancer, and NOW please.

Can't argue with that.

Di

[Andrea]

My mom is 60. I am 33. She smoked when pregnant, as did everyone else she knew. The dangers were not as "public" as they were now.

[bunny]

so what about me? I started smoking in 1983 (quit in 1999). if I ever get LC, will I not be deserving of treatment, or somehow less a victim than someone who got it without smoking? if I'd gotten AIDS after I knew better than to have unprotected sex, would I be written off and ignored, while the girl that got it from her dentist is an "innocent victim"? used to be, the answer was yes. that changed because activists mounted BOTH a prevention/awareness and a research funding campaign.

the point is, that we're talking about apples and oranges. apples = prevention, oranges = treatment. there is nothing wrong with smoking prevention programs as lung cancer awareness programs. I'm not "offended" by ABCs story, as long as they round it out with the non-smokers and funding disparties part of the story. what is WRONG is the fact that LC gets such a disproportionately small slice of the research and public sympathy pies.

unfortunately, changing that may be up to us - breast cancer became the cause it is from the grassroots up, not out of the generosity of corporations and governments' hearts. we have to make it impossible for the pharmaceutical industry and our government to get away with underselling the importance of lung cancer research.

I am taking a book called "The Tipping Point" on vacation with me next week. it talks about how things become big deals, and why some things fade out of the spotlight. hopefully, it will give me something we can use.

phew. happy I got all that out.

xoxo

amie

[Maryanne]

I was always a social smoker. Could have a cigarette here and there if I felt like having one. Usually when I was in a bar. But I never bought them and never had a constant craving for one.

A couple of years ago, I started having just one cigarette before I went to bed, while the news was on. I would bum a Marlboro from Joel, that one cigarette was enough for me. I enjoyed it and it helped me sleep.

Well, when Joel was diagnoised with LC, he stopped cold turkey. I did not feel it was right for me to have my nightly cigarette because I was lying next to him and did not want to temp him of blow smoke around him. So I cut it out. Do you know that at that time every night I craved that cigarette? It drove me crazy to a point that I bought the Nicotine gum and chew it at the time when I got that craving. It worked and of course now I don't need the gum anymore.

Anyway, I know why a person would have a hard time giving it up when they smoked alot. It must be torture.

I am so glad that that we have a smoke free house. I no longer smell that tobacco odor on him. Now if we could only get rid of the LC for good.

Maryanne

[Larry]

You know i'm so glad that this has been a intelligent and acknowledgeble debate as i've noticed one theme from most comment's and that is the self reliance and responsibility factor. You know it is so easy to say WHAT no one told me but like one wrote whose father was a doctor if after awhile one has'nt figured out it's bad for you etc:.I too had a Doctor tell me to smoke (he smoked cigar's) because of my anger and that it would help calm me and in a lot of way's he was right as many a fight was avoided because of the good ol Cig. And hey Donna i had those smoking dream's my self but now very rarely. I remember telling my self if i ever got the smokers cough i'd quit well i quit but it was from a heart attack and 5 bypasses later. But i'll end this by saying i too came from so called uneducated people with lot's of smoker's and we were considered a ruff and tumble lot and we were poor But most refused any form of welfare and were taught not to cry when you got into trouble and most Goverment people were like old widow ladies busy bodies. The important thing to me is to live the life we've been given and to try and alway's thank GOD for the blessing's we do have and not complain so much. So people make mistakes some stupid and some just plain old error's but to me people who live in glass houses should'nt throw rock's or as Christ said let him who is without sin throw the first stone......

[daggiesmom]

I'm really upset by alot i've read here. Seriously thinking about why I post at all. I wonder if I'm considered a "Leper" because I have Small Cell which is associated completely with smoking. Does that make me less worthy of a cure as a person who never smoked? I have taken responsibility for many, many things in my life and I don't walk around with guilt. Some folks love guilt, not me - life is too short for that, this I know personally. I prefer to enjoy my life and stay away from downer people as much as possible. I still praise ABC for at least doing a month long piece on Lung Cancer and trying to save the next generation. There should be a alot of praise for that.

I still say, as I have in the past, that tobacco is the only drug, if used properly and responsibly, will kill you. The government profits and allows it to continue. I expect support and kindness on this board. That is why I joined and I have done my best to continue in that fashion and not be "doom and gloom Joanie." Lighten up folks, remember, we are all in this boat together. Don't make me feel that I should bail out because I wasn't "responsible." I refuse to let anyone push guilt on me. Period.

[Fay A.]

Joanie,

I'll tell you one of the things that confuses me: How can so many "experts" on cancer histology have so many different opinions on what is a completely smoking related form of Lung Cancer and which isn't. Because the truth is a Cancer pathologist I respect told me that Small Cell was often caused by exposure to solvents. No one has ever told me that Small Cell is exclusively a Smoking related Lung Cancer.

[daggiesmom]

As far as I can remember from things I've read, small cell is the most "smoking related" lung cancer. Rarely does anyone get small cell who is a non-smoker. Solvents and other outside pollution can of course play a part. Last year, workmen were doing concrete work and stripping old paint from the outside of our apartment building. They were all smoking up a storm as they worked, without masks, I may add. I thought to myself " there's another group of small cell people in the making." Also, I grew up and still live in the building, built in 1950 and full of asbestos covered pipes. Maybe this also contributed? Who knows. But my doctor told me that small cell was directly related to smoking. I hope you're feeling well Fay. You're a fighter all the way!

Joanie

[Fall54]

Oh Boy, I know I am going to get slammed! I have read every post and want you all to know I am STILL a smoker and not a slight one at that. My Father died at 46 yrs old from a heart attack and my Brother at 46 from LC. When he was dx his DR out and out told him that the time to quit smoking was not now. Perhaps because he had given up a life time love with drinking and had been sober for the 1st time in all his adult years for a little over a year when he was dx. Maybe his DR thought it would push him back to drinking and he had over 30 spots on his liver. He was about to try to quit smoking when he was dx. and his DR told him now was not the time.

I am no dummie but I am still a smoker. My husband is also a smoker. I will say this if I could get him to quit , I would quit also. I have quit one time since marrying him for 4 months and for some reason when I went back I felt like if I didnt have a cigarette I would jump off a bridge somewhere.

His smoking has made me believe I could never do it and live in the same house as him and I love him to peices. This is not an excuse. I will also say knowing the warnings I continued to smoke all my life since I was about 16 and I am 51 now.

I love all you people and I am on this board enough to know that smoking is looked at in a very negative way. Do any of you think that I think I will end up with LC?? The answer to the question is Yes I do feel I will as I feel my husband will too. How sad I know but how true.

Another thing that has been planted firmly in my head is knowing from you're bio's that most of you smoked decades ago and still have LC. It has made me think....... Why should I quit something I througherly enjoy when these people quit for their health and ended up with LC just the same.

But to end this all I will say I DO know how bad smoking is for the heart and for cancer and many other dx's, I want to quit but dont know if or when I ever will. I hope I am not judged too harshly for fessing up that I am STILL a smoker yet care and want to help in any way I can all of you as I wanted to help my Brother. Smoking is not a wise choice but it does not make me any less a caring loving person.

God Bles You All,

Jane