Difficult Decision- I need some opinions

[dchurchi]

Carleen,

I will answer with both my heart and my head.

I will also let you know that even before I married

Alan I knew we could NOT have children.

My husband also has small cell with mets to the

brain. We have been married for 14 years. I know

that eventually I will probably loose my husband

to this disease and what hurts the most is when he

is gone, that's it. I often wish we could have had a child together and a part of "US" would always carry on. So my heart says try to get pregnant.

Now for what my head says. Alan has had so many

tough times, I was working full time and trying to

juggle his care WITHOUT a child to care for and it

almost did me in. So my head says now is not the time.

You and Keith appear to be deeply spiritual people,

so I would turn this over to God.

I am sorry you are faced with having to make this

type of decsion and I pray you will have peace with

whatever you do decide.

[dadstimeon]

Carleen, To me the greatest gift anyone can receive is a child. I can only go by my own experience. Three months after our daughter was born my wife went back to her full time job. Since I was working full time at night I watched my daughter full time during the day also. It's a lot of responsibility, a lot of work and commitment, all worth it and to me the greatest experience of my life, but babies don't take a holiday or give one a break. Babies are 24x7, lung cancer is 24x7, care-giving is 24x7. Plus trying to conceive and carry a baby for nine months will certainly add to your already heavy load of stress and Keith's. If I were you I would sit down with Kieth write down on a piece of paper all the pros and cons of having a baby now, what are all your options, when is the best time. This is a major decision under very extreme adversity for both you and Keith. Also the last line of your (I'm broken, I've taken all I can") post--"Oh God just please kill me" is another reason to give it a long and hard look. Sounds like you have your plate full already. Hope this helps. Prayers for the best. Rich

PS: I baby sit also, I'm a big kid at heart.

[Kaffie]

I can't tell you what to do

but if I were in your situation

I think I would do it.

I would want my spouse to

have the chance to know that

a part of him will go on living.

If something were to happen to

Keith I'm sure you'd have

plenty of help from your

families.

Kathy

[hollyanne]

Carleen -

I have thought long and hard about this..... I found out that my mom was Stage IV when I was four months almost five months pregnant. The stress I have gone through the last five months has been unbearable (well you know what it is like) -- yet when babies are inside of you they are very resilent....I KNOW that she had no negative reprecussions due to my stress....and she certainly has given all of us something to look forward to and cherish -- she has been an amazing blessing.

The getting pregnant and staying pregnant part you CAN do regardless of what else is going on.... I would tell everyone I am glad that I just need to eat right and take care of myself...and that the little baby inside of me would take care of the rest -- the tougher part is after the baby is born. I am exhausted, caring for my mom and a newborn --- yet if you have the resources to help you if you are caring for Keith and the baby at the same time -- then ABSOLUTELY go for it. There is never a good time to have a baby. Having help lined up makes all the difference.....and the joy this little bundle provides is impossible to put into words.

Good luck. You will do the right thing.

Holly

[Suzie Q]

Carleen,

First, let me say that I'm a big fan of babies. I was one once. But like it has been said before, kids are a full-time job and care-giving is a full-time job. You cannot do it all unless you have a supreme support system.

I won't give you thumbs up or down; I'll give you food for thought.

Babies and young children can brighten our lives. They have such innocence, optimism and energy. They make us laugh and get us to loosen up about a lot of things. And they can challenge us and strain us to the breaking point. And pregnancy can be complicated and high-risk, and children can be born with or acquire problems that are difficult to manage. Can you do it alone if Keith's health declines?

I mean, what if you got pregnant with multiples? Not too uncommon in IVF, and depending on how aggressive the doctor is, if they put more than 4 embryos in the uterus, you could have a high-order multiple scenario. Also, spontaneous twinning of implanted embryos can occur, too. Would you be willing to consider selective reduction? I know it's taboo to talk about such things, but I believe all couples should know where their boundaries are BEFORE they get into that situation. This way, you can tell the doc: "You know, we just will not do selective termination, so do not place more than 3 (or whatever number limit) embryos." Also, consider what you would do with the remaining frozen embryos, should there be any. Know what your plan of action is in advance, so you do not have to make a decision in a state of emotional turmoil.

Are you both emotionally strong enough to deal with the possibility of a failed IVF attempt or pregnancy loss?

I also must speak to you as the daughter of two cancer patients. My dear mother is caregiver to my dad, who is end-stage melanoma. My mom has essentially been on chemo since diagnosis of stave IV NSCLC in April of 2004. She has neuropathy and difficulty breathing, fatigue, etc, so she needs assistance in caring for my dad. Yes, hospice helps but someone must be there 24-7. I wish I could help more but I have 2 preschoolers to take care of and my availability is limited. There are many, many times that I have thought how much more help I would be if we had no children. Not that I want to give my kids up, not at all, but if all this had happened 4 years ago, I would have quit my job and been more available. Maybe then my mom would not have been hospitalized for two weeks this past summer with intractible headache pain (probably stress- and chemo-related). It is extremely common for caregivers to have a major medical problem during or after caring for someone terminally ill. When Keith's time comes, you as a healthy person will need respite, too. I can't imagine what stresses a new baby (or babies) would add to an already stressful situation.

You talk of having some piece of Keith to carry on after he's gone. Well, I'm an adoptive mom, so if I lost my husband I would not have that "something" of him to hold onto. I never will. But I'm ok with that. Perhaps because I already have grieved that loss, I don't know. But it's ok.

Don't be pressured by time to jump into any decision about trying for pregnancy. Think about how you would handle or plan for the possibilities and gauge that against your (as a couple) desire to have a child. Pray about it together. You will make the best decision with His loving help.

My best to you,

~Suz

PS: I babysit, too, but I don't transport.

[mamasbabygirl]

OK, I have thought about this and here goes..

My baby boy Graden was only 9 months old when my hubby passed, so I think I have some perspective here as well as others who have replied. I thought of your questions as pros and cons.

Pros to getting pregnant:

Keith would probably be happy that he has a part of him go on.

The baby would help you move on, give you a reason to live if something happens to Keith.

Going into the pregnancy knowing that you could be a single parent will make you prepared if something happens to Keith. You will relish the baby's love and the decision you both made to bring the baby into this world. I was not prepared and had to learn to be a single parent to a baby. You have an advantage here.

You will receive some financial help with survivor's benefits for the both of you.

Cons

My main worry is that Graden will always feel that he is not whole, that he will always grow up wondering what his life would be like if Chad were still here.

That's about all I got. I also agree with Ry that there is never a perfect time to have a baby.

From my list, I would have to say go for it. If you get pregnant, it is God's will. If not, you can always make the decision to try again.

Thanks Gail for finding the Oprah show, I looked forever bc it is was the first thing I thought of when I read Carleen's post. The lady was very very happy with her choice. It was so sweet.

Love and prayers to you Carleen and Keith...

[Irisheyes]

Carleen,

You sound like a very strong person with support from your family and strong faith. I have no doubt that whatever you decide you and your husband will make it work no matter what the circumstances.

Personally, there is no greater joy than being a parent. On the plane ride back from visiting my dad last week my baby (he's 8 now) held my hand while I cried. I see my dad in him when I style his curls, watch him hit a golf ball or catch a fish and that helps me put things in perspective.

I agree with the others that have stated if we waited for the perfect time to have children most of us would be childless, I know I would be. Somehow, you find a way. I will keep you in my prayers as I am sure you are probably having some sleepless nights over this one.

Shannon

[Pamela]

Carleen, if it were me, I'd do it. Pregnancy can be tough, of course, but it's also a wonderful, exciting, breathtaking experience. It could be a source of joy and distraction for Keith. The wonder of feeling the baby move, seeing the sonogram, hearing the heartbeat, could add such joy and wonder at a time when fear threatens to overwhelm you.

Of course, it could also be stressful for both of you, but I think you have some degree of choice about whether you allow it to be stressful. You'd have to be mentally disciplined to focus on the positive and not worry about whether Keith will be there to see the child go to kindergarten or graduate from high school. I think you'd have to savor each moment of the pregnancy and not think too far into the future.

Just my opinion. As others have said, you're the only one who really knows.

Pam

[Darci]

Oh dear, how unfair that life had to take you down such a path that you have to try to make such a tough decision.

Where to start - my first thought is how wonderful a baby would be for you and for Keith. Nothing is more awesome or inspiring than a new life. Nothing is more precious than holding a baby.

But, having gone through two failed IVF procedures myself...I can tell you it is just an awful, exciting, emotional rollercoaster. I do worry about how hard it would be on both of you to be going through that, while at the same time fighting for Keith's life. And...if it should not work...the emotional impact of that. When I got the phone calls that the procedures did not work, it was like someone sucked all the life right out of me. I think that that would be very hard for both of you.

But, on the other hand, if there are no fertility issues to deal with, you may be an excellent candidate for IVF and it may go very smooth.

I probably haven't helped..maybe I have confused you even more!! Follow your heart...it will not lead you astray!

BTW - there is a happy ending to our story. We went on to adopt two wonderful little boys from Guatemala. They are the love of my life!!

[Don]

Hello Carleen,

I haven't written much on this website, it's been my husand, Don. You'll see it's his name here but it's me, Letty, his wife writing this time.

You know Carleen, when my Don was diagnosed with SCLC, he took every precaution about big item spending, and all for me. He did everything to make sure I wouldn't have problems with selling things, dealing with issues, paperwork, lawyers, etc. ANd I have come to believe that is how an Angel works.

I truly believe that sparing hardships for each other is what it's all about when dealing with the sickness of cancer.

For you, it would bring much happiness to have a baby. For your hubby as well. The thing I see is that with all the time you've spent taking care of your husband, your baby will take that much as well.

Do you want to have all of your free time to help your husband and the worry of that alone is enormous.

Good thing you have the sperm collection.

For your Keith, gosh, its so hard to know....

We know a couple with a 2 year old son. The dad has lung cancer and it's in several areas including the bones. Yes, he's doing well now, but who knows for later? ANd I know it breaks his heart seeing his son and thinking of the time he'll miss with him later in life. Sometimes it makes him angry.And then other times it's like he resents having a child. It's too emotionally unstable for him...and the drugs, steriods etc., can make him crazy and then it's worse. And for his wife, well she has a full day with their child and her husband. If he gets very sick, she's worried about that because their child demands so much attention is sooooo many ways.

Guess all in all, it's totally a personal decision.

But I think in lots of ways it's a thing of the "heart" that makes you want your child now. But if one or the other needs all of your attention, then you are in a difficult position. And a person can only handle so much. Right now you are having a very tough time emotionally handling what is happening right now. I would be the same.

REally think about it. In my mind waiting is better for you right now. For the both of you. Having a baby on the way should be a happy time, not one that might have you wondering or regretting your decision because of stress etc., emotional upsets...so many things.

Look to God to know deep inside what to do.

Sincerely,

Letty Laughery (wife)

[bunny]

Carleen,

yeesh. I have read and reread your post and all the responses to it, trying to come up with a well-though-out, insightful and mature response to your request.

I just keep coming back to the mushy, emotional one that first grabbed me though - which is

GO FOR IT.

I think it's life affirming for all of you, I think babies are the great healers in this world, and I think you, of all people, can do it. at any rate, all you can do is the footwork, right? even with technology, it's in god's (or the universe, or whatever) hands.

honey, your heart is true and good and run by the dictates of love. you will know the right thing to do. whatever decision you make won't be easy, for a million reasons, but you'll know what's right. I have total, total faith in you.

xoxo

bunny

[SBeth]

Dear Carleen,

I read this shortly after you posted and thought it was probably a good idea not to respond as my emotional state would prevent me from giving anything more than a from the heart opinion. But, here I find myself...taking off my shoe and preparing to stick my foot into my mouth. What the hell...

I say go for it. I'd give anything...and I mean I'd give anything to have saved sperm from Bill. My husband was 49 and I'm 38 years old. When we met 10 years ago we both already had our children and we NEVER EVER contemplated having a child together. I tell you right now that I'd give absolutely ANYTHING I have to turn back the clock and be ABLE to change that now. Again...take into consideration that I'm only a few weeks away from loosing my husband; but this IS how I feel right now. All my best to you in your and Keith's decision.

[eppie]

Listen to your heart!

[nancy c]

Well, I say you do what your heart and Keith's tells you. Go for it ..if it's what you want. Carleen, what I have found out about life..we have ONE chance at it. No reruns..can't do it over again..so do what you want and what your heart tells you. Kids are extreme work..but so are many things in life. Cancer is extreme work..and so is any illness. Caregivers have extreme work..and so do cancer patients. You are here on this earthh to love and live. Do it. And may all your dreams come true God bless you both, Nancy C

[Sheri]

Carleen

I've followed your plight for some time now and you've defeated the odds. I don't think this is something we can answer for you, I would rest this decision on Keith. He saved his sperm for a reason, and having children does give us a sense of immortality. If it's financially feasible, do it.

I've raised my daughter alone out of the gate and if she's had a faltered upbringing because her father has been absent, she's not telling. She's a straight A ninth grader, a varsity all sports player, popular, busy and well adjusted.

Pregnancy isn't the hard part, delivery is what causes the pain. I'd leave it up to Keith and honor his wishes. I wish the best for both of you. God bless you both.

[hopeandstrength]

(((Carleen)))

I know you will come up with the right decision for you and Keith. I can only tell you what I would do. I would do it in a heartbeat.

Love,

Cathy

[natalie]

Carleen,

I sincerely sit here and in awe of your strength and admire your relationship. Not only are you an externally gorgeous looking couple, inside you express such beautiful people and just in awe of your strength and loving nature. With that being said, you are being faced with such a difficult situation. I look at what I've come to know of you in the 3 years I've been on this board. What I do know is that you are a nuturing person. You are also a loving, caring, kind, thoughful, wonderful human being. No child is going to grow up in the perfect environment...no one can be the perfect parent....but you and Keith have a strong foundation for parenthood and as you already know, you'll make wonderful parents. You will make a wonderful mother, no matter what happens. There are plenty of screwed up people that can have 10 kids, live on welfare, and their kids still make it okay. If you decide to do this, we can have a fundraiser on your behalf. I'll be one of the first people to donate to your situation. Who knows...having a child might be part of Keith's story...maybe God wants a little Keith to walk this earth. Maybe it will give Keith something to look forward to. I know realistic, we are suppose to be thinking of our futures at this age, etc...but you never know the cards you are going to be dealt. I would also sit and talk with your doctor about your options, your concerns, maybe they will help make the decision easier...or they might be able to direct you to funding resources. They may even be kind enough to do it probono...do they ever do that? Carleen, you are so in my thoughts. You and Keith. Praying for you guys all the time. We are here for you whatever you decide. Hugs Hugs Hugs

[RandyW]

I am in awe. You 2 are like peas in pod together. I have been married 9 years on 2/16/06. I have no children, but love evryone elses to death. Deb has been fighting this for 3 years on 3/29/06. She is my everything also. My advice is this, Go outside tonite under the stars and say a prayer to God. He can hear better under the stars I believe and nothing can interrupt you. HE will give you an answer and It will be the right one to follow. Personally; You can not make a wrong choice. Either way I think you will be truly blessed.

[nikkala]

No advise, just would like to offer prayers. Lifting you both up to Jesus and praying He will help you find the right path for you.

[bauner95]

Carleen,

I read this post last night and all of the replies that have been posted. At first I wasn't going to post because I just started posting, but after many thoughts and prayers, I wanted to share a few things with you. I am not sure what you should do about this. Part of me says go for it, and the other part of me says not right now.

I think that we are close in age. Mike & I are both 33. I know how hard it is to care for our husbands. We have two kids, a boy 10 and a girl 4. I know how hard it is to deal with all of this and kids too. The stress of the whole situation is something that I can't even describe to you. During Mike's treatments, I have felt like I was neglecting one or the other. I either take care of Mike or take care of the kids. This was so hard for me. At the same time, the kids were a much needed distraction sometimes.

I don't think that any of us can make this decision for you. This is something that you and Keith need to discuss. We are all here to share our thoughts and experiences to give you and Keith more things to think about. I think that you and Keith should pray together and seperately about this. God will answer this for you.

I do want to give you some things to think about and talk to Keith about these things. They were important for me and hard for me to deal with during the last year. I hope that God will guide the two of you in your decision and that the things that we are all sharing on this board will be food for thought for you.

When we learned of Mike's diagnosis, the things that went through my mind were the worst. I was sad about my husband don't get me wrong, but I could not help but think about my kids and them not having their dad. My son wanted to play football and baseball. He wanted his dad to teach him to hunt and so many other things. Who was going to do this with him? I could not help but think of all these things for him. Then there was my daughter. She was three at the time. Would she even remember her dad? They had special things they did together too. He polished her nails and fixed her hair. She always asked him to help her with these things and not me. Then I thought of her wedding. Who would walk my baby down the aisle? These thoughts still bring tears to my eyes just typing. The emotions are overwhelming for this. For a few months after he was diagnosed, everytime I looked at the kids I just sobbed.

I know that you and Keith already know the things that could happen to him, so you may not have to deal with these thoughts, but I think that they will still pop into your head. These thoughts will always be in the back of your mind, even if you know before you even have the baby.

I hope that this will give you something to think about and talk to Keith about. I will be praying for both of you. Good luck with this decision. I can't even imagine how hard this will be for you whatever you all decide.

God Bless,

Kim

[sophiesdaughter]

Carleen,

First I'd like to say how much I admire you for the very strong love that you have for Keith!

Regarding your dilema, I think it is a wonderful idea, and I would say go for it!

It would be a wonderful gift for you and Keith, and would give you something very important to live for.

You obviously are a very loving person, and could give a lot to a child...

Rana

[sharyn]

Carleen,

I tried not to read everyones responses, because I wanted to give you my first reaction... gut feeling.. without being biased by what someone else has said... so here goes...

From what I know of you, you are not a "fly by the seat" kind of woman. I think you have thought long and hard about this and I think you know what your decision should be. I don't want to give you mine, because, this ISN'T my decision to make - and it would be wrong of me to point you in either direction. I will tell you two things... one, my daughter went through IV, the process is a tough one, with only about a 20% chance of working on the first try. Fortunately, her insurance did cover the procedure (which still shocks me!!). Second, if you are fortunate enough to get pregnant, you must limit your stress so you can carry that beautiful baby to term. I don't think there would be anything more devastating to you and Keith right now than a miscarriage.

Carleen, follow your heart ... it will never led you astray, that I can promise you. My best to you and Keith. Love, Sharon

[K and Kids]

Carleen,

I wish you all the best whatever you choose to do.

I know that even in normal circumstances it is always important to have a strong support group when raising children. I found the friends I met when my children were babies have been the best thing when it comes to dealing with those trying times, tragic times and joyful times. They understand where I am coming from and offer support when I need it. I'm sure your family and Keith's will be there too but other mothers with the same age children can offer amazing support.

IVF is not something that I have experience in so I can't offer insight there.

Pregnancies are different for everyone but knowing what you are up against as far as Keith's health will probably come into play and you are right in considering this as part of decision making process.

Again, I offer prayers as you take in all the different possibilites and weight all the options.

[Maryanne]

Dear Carleen,

I have read over everyones replies. I can only say this is a very personal decision between you and Keith. Therefore I will not give my opinion.

I will just say that you must weight the pros with the cons. Andrea has gone through in-vitro a couple of times, you may want to PM her about what it entails and how time consuming it may be.

Also, did you ever consider multiple births that can be a result of that. My cousin had triplets. So you never know. I think I would just feel a little more comfortable if you had family around to help you out if you decide to go on this.

Whatever your decision, we will back you 100%.

G-d Bless,

Maryanne

[Carleen]

Thank you all for your advice. There is so much to consider, and I guess there is no easy way to ever know what the "right" answer is. But then again, I think even under ideal circumstances there is always the doubt of whether you'll make a good parent or if it is the right thing to do.

Keith and I have decided to go for it. I feel like some of the decisions have been made for me by God to help the decision become more clear. We thought about waiting a little longer until things were more sure with Keith, but as it turns out the doctor says they only will harvest a women's eggs up until a certain age. Well, that age for me is in 9 months, so if it is ever going to happen it must be this year. AI is unfortunately not an option, as we were only able to save one vial of semen, and it was collected after 1 chemo treatment. Therefore the number of live cells is too low to consider any other option IVF is the only choice the doc gave us. I know the odds are low, but I am going in with the attitude that a baby will be a blessing if it happens. If not, I am content as long as I have Keith. I don't want to put any pressure or stress on the expectation of the outcome, there is already enough stress on the procedure alone. But I also consider myself lucky. The doctor I am seeing is considered the #3 fertility specialist in the nation, and his clinic is currently reporting a just under 50% success rate on live births using IVF with only a 5% rate of twins. I can't deny the thought of multiple births scares the pants off of me (no pun intended).

I know it will be a LOT of work. I know it is a full time job. The work doesn't scare me, as it is what I live for. I love taking care of Keith, and I would do it tenfold more if he wanted or needed it. The caring for and serving have never been stressful to me. What I've found unbearable is the unknown, the unsure future, the waiting, the thought of not having this magnificent love surrounding me and fueling me, the thought of not having that love to return.

My biggest fear with doing the IVF is whether I will be good enough? I fear that my child will grow up feeling cheated if he is raised without a father. Is it fair to do to a child knowing in advance it might be the case?

But there will not be any shortage of love. Keith is already in love with his child and we haven't even begun yet.

Also, I am lucky in that I do have a close relationship with my family and Keith's family. I speak to my family daily, I have 2 sisters and a brother and their spouses, my parents, and 10 neices all in babysitting age And they all live within 20 miles of me. In addition, Keith's family who has always been estranged in the past has grown close through his illness and are all very supportive of the idea of having another little Keith running around. The biggest blessing I have right now is Keith with me. I know that if I am ever to have his child at all it will be hard. But right now I do have him to help me, if we wait I might have to do it alone. Although he is exhausted and feels like crap most times from the chemo, he is still working full time, and can accomplish most things that he puts his mind to. I have no doubts that he will want to, and be able to help me through the procedure. Keith has always lived his life as if he was not going to allow LC to make any of his decisions for him. The past three years we have lived and made decisions that others have thought were reckless because of his health. But surprise, he as surpassed their expectations and those decisions turned out to be rewarding and good. We still plan for our futures together, and have faith in God to pull him through this. Keith's wish for our future together is to have a family. I can't deny him any wishes, no matter if it requires extra effort on my part.

So, long story short, I am starting the drugs and process in about a week.

Thank you again all for your kind and caring responses. They really have helped make me think more indepth about this, as well as eased my doubts some.

I love you all!!!!