-Cheryl- Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Hi Guys, I went to have a vitamin IV today during my lunch!. There were several people having the procedure done while I was there, including a child who had Epstine Bar Syndrome as a result of having had Mono. If anyone is considerng this procedure, eat before you have it! It is like taking vitamins on an empty stomach. The nurse brought me a protein shake which took away onset of nausea. I felt pretty good the rest of the day, went rght back to work. Do not take vitamins the day of the procedure either, due to potential toxicity overdose! I will keep you posted on effects. Cheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sandra.sobotka Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Hi Cheryl, My Dad's nutritionalist recommended a Vitamin C IV drip for him. Is this what you had? The oncologist believes it will interfere with chemo/radiation. Whereas the nutritionalist believes it will not and will only bolster the immune system during treatment. Any thoughts? Sandra, Father (Eugene), stage IV lung cancer Carboplatin/Taxol Chemo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave s Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Sandra, Vitamin C has a dual personality. In low doses is an anti-oxidant but in extremely high doses it becomes very pro-oxidant. What this means is that high doses of vitamin C cause the generation of peroxides in the cells. For normal cells this doesn't matter since their catalase content neutralizes the peroxides to harmless oxygen and water. However cancer cells are very different. One of the defining characteristics of cancer cells is their extreme deficiency of catalase (10 to 100 fold). Since the cancer cells can't neutralize the generated peroxides, they accumulate in the cancer cells only and kill them within a fairly short time. Now in order to achive this effect a large quantity of vitamin C must be infused. There was a 15 year research project called RECNAC (cancer spelled backwards). They determined that plasma concentrations of 400mg/dl are required to achieve cytotoxicity (that is to kill cancer cells) for most of the cancer cell lines they tested. For the average person I believe that translates to about 50 or 60 grams of IV C per infusion. The biggest problem with this therapy is that the kidneys excrete vitamin C at a very rapid rate. No matter how much you take in, your plasma levels are back to near baseline in approximately 24 hours. So effective therapies require the repeated infusion of large quantities of IV C at regular intervals to keep killing the cancer cells over time. I have spoken with 2 of the principals in the RECNAC project and I am currently following the protocol they developed. I am taking (as of last week) 75 grams of vitamin C two times per week. Prior to that I was taking 50 grams, two times per week for the preceeding 2 months. If your nutritionist is suggesting these large doses of IV C then this is what they are trying to achieve. If on the other hand they are only suggesting, say 15 to 30 grams then they are only looking for anti-oxidant effects. There is a concern that anti-oxidant doses could undermine the efficiency of chemo by repairing the DNA damage that the chemo is trying to cause. I don't personaly believe that myself. I feel the the chemo induced mutations are so strong that vitamin C alone can't reduce it's effectiveness sufficiently to undermine it's overall effectiveness. If you are interested in the cytotoxic IV C protocol I can provide you with more information. In either case it's unlikely your oncologist will know much about the therapy and will naturally not want to risk any possibility of undermining the effectiveness of your chemo with something they don't understand. For what it's worth, the developers of the IV C cytotoxic protocol believe it is also useful as an adjunctive therapy (that is, used in combination with conventional chemo). Let me know if you are interested in any more information on this subject. Best of luck to you and yours, Dave S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sandra.sobotka Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Dave, Thank you so much for your input. Yes, I would love more information on the cytotoxic IV C Protocol. My email address is sandra.sobotka@accenture.com. Dad's nutritionalist recommended the vitamin C drip, but he has referred us to his colleague for the actual treatment. We didn't ask him about the quantity, but I will do so. Are there any side effects or cautions we should be aware of? My Dad (78) is eating much better the past few days, but is somewhat wobbly. He's having trouble keeping his balance. The oncologist did a brain scan and he has one small spot which needs radiation, however, the oncologist did not believe this is what was causing the problem as the spot was in his right frontal lobe and not typical of brain metastasis that would create a problem with equilabrium. He has not lost too much weight, about 6 pounds over the past month. His normal weight is about 140. He actually gained a few pounds during chemo, but now he's down to 136. Dad will be starting radiation and chemo again some time next week. Thank you and God bless you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave s Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Sandra I sent you an email w/info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave s Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Sandra, My email to you came back with an automated reply which said you weren't coming back until July 19th! Wow, that's a long time. Since that's the case I'll pass along a little of it here: For general info take a look at http://www.canceraction.org.gg/index2.htm The protocol I am using is briefly described here http://www.canceraction.org.gg/recnac.htm The short answer to your question about any cautions or side effects is: NO. Let me know how I can be of further assistance, OK? Dave S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sandra.sobotka Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I posted this reply on the NSLC site, but thought I would post for my new friends here well. We just got Dad's latest Chest and Brain CT scans back. It appears that the cancer has now spread to the brain (2 small spots), the bones (1 rib), the right adrenal and there are multiple lessions in the liver. The Oncologist started him on Iressa today and he will start radiation to the brain next week. However, he is not hopeful with such a rapid progression of disease and has recommended hospice to consider instead. Dad is still doing ok at home. A little wobbly, but his appetite is good and I am not willing to give up on Dad yet. Anything we should be aware of in terms of medicines or anything else which should be done prior/during treatment which will help Dad get through whole brain radiation? Any hope for multiple liver lessions? Dave - - Should we still consider the high dose vitamin C drip at this point? Can you do this while on Iressa and radiation? Thanks, Sandra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave s Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Sandra, I'm sorry to hear your latest news. I don't see any reason why you couldn't use high dose IV C along with Iressa and radiation. The developers actually recommend that. A bigger question is probably how long will it take to get started on the treatment. If you need to go to Kansas for a workup as I did, that will take probably 3 weeks or so. But you mentioned you may have a local resource who could get you started immediately, didn't you? Let me know, Dave S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sandra.sobotka Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Dave, Yes, we have a local doctor recommended by Dad's nutritionalist that we have an appointment with on Tuesday (our 1st visit). Not sure if he can do the treatment right away that day because we solely set up an appt for couseltation only (we weren't expecting this news), but maybe within a week or so. I'll keep you posted. Prayers for everyone. God bless you, Sandra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cheryl- Posted June 24, 2004 Author Share Posted June 24, 2004 Sandra, I would wait on the vitamin C IV until chemo is done. It renders the chemo less effective. This is what my onc told me. I waited a month or so before starting the alternative treatments, till the chemo was out of my system. Good luck, Cheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Dear Cheryl or Dave (or anyone else who has tried the IV Vit C treatments), I was directed to this site from another cancer site I am on. I don't have lung cancer, but I have ovarian 3C diagnosed 6/02. I have been on carbo/taxol, topotecan, Doxil, gemzar, gemzar/cisplatin, and now taxotere. I have an appointment at the end of January at the Bright Spot to start IV vit C treatments along with my 'regular' chemo. Please email me if you have had further experience with the IV vit C. I know of two people it has helped and one it hasn't. Since I don't have lung cancer, please email me at cberland@ix.netcom.com. Thanks. I do hope this gets to the individuals who did post on this topic in June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Carol, I sent you an email. I did do the vitamin IV therapy, however my oncologist will not allow me to continue during treatment. If you are investigating high dose vitamin or supplement treatment, please make sure you talk to you physicians to make sure you do not counteract any of your other medications. Some people have reported "feeling" great during treatment. I did not do it for long enough to see any results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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