So, I'm replying to Pams "agony" post, and...

[Guest DaveG]

My daughter is 31. She and her husband had their first child in August, which is our 4th grand child. When she sent Christmas Cards, this year, she included something she copied from this message board (she lurks and has never registered or made a post.) It felt good to see what she had written, as I knew exactly where she got it from, and she referenced our group. It also felt good becuase I came to realize what she is going through, although we have never sat down and discussed my lung cancer.

Deb, what you have written about your father, and I have to assume that he and I are close to the same age, shows me how much you loved your father. Just because he is gone now, does not mean you are supposed to stop loving him, on the contrary, you must continue to love him, as both of you will be together some day. It is not wrong to cry, Jesus wept at the death of Lazerus. Remember all the good things about your father and you have already taught your children about their grandpa. You want them to remember your father as a good person, who loved and cared for his family. Believe me the crying and tears you are experiencing now will pass and soon you will talking and laughing about some the experiences you had with your father. How do I know this? It is exactly what I went through when my father died. My father's last words to me, came two days before his death. They were simple and to the point, "David, I love you". That is how I remember my father.

[Pam]

Oh Deb,

You've put into words what I've been trying to say - and also - been afraid to say it. I'll admit it - I WANT PROOF!! I feel exactly like you,

I cry and cry and cry, then feel warmth and love when thinking about my dad, then start doubting myself....I want a sign too!!!

What a vicious cycle.....

My mom feels as yours does also, she looks for him.

We both feel like we are waiting for him to come home from work.

The other day.....I thought I saw my dad. Some man in another car, with silver grey hair, passed me- and my mind freaked out again...

THERE HE IS! as I sucked in my breath and my heart started racing

and then just as suddenly....down to the depths of despair again.

Sorry for being a drama queen.

But for a moment, I felt such happiness, and realized I haven't felt that happiness in a loooong time.

I keep reliving every moment, from his diagnosis, to each hospital stay, to the appointments, to little bits of conversation my dad and I had during his illness, on to the end, when I sat by that hopital bed and held his hand and cried......I feel like he is missing out on so many things, his new granddaughter, time with Matthew as he grows up, his retirement which will never come......

Aaack.....why can't I wake up and have my daddy back.

And Dean, if you are reading this.....your post has helped me so many times since you wrote it.....I wish we could all sit together, quietly, and take a deep breath.

[Snowflake]

Deb,

I think you ARE receiving signs...and the whole idea of wanting another one the next day and never being satisfied - I don't think that's it at all...

Remember your childhood? Times with your father then? Having him hunt out the monsters from under the bed and in the closet, him tucking you back in, giving you a kiss and saying he was "just down the hall"? Did you EVER call in a quiet voice "Daddy" just to hear his response and know he really WAS there? I think that's what you are doing now...you receive the signs, yet you just want to be sure it wasn't your imagination...

It sounds to me as if you are doing well in your stages of grief. Loss is not easy to accept and it is something that will come up every single day and you will have to deal with it - it sounds like you have some very healthy coping skills and see the thoughts of your father as "time" with your father. How WONDERFUL is that? Just because your father has passed over is no reason to think there will not be NEW memories of him, his presence seems to be very strong in your heart and life as the "Peaches" seems to show. Your FAMILY still feels him and his love is still alive.

Hang on Deb, you really are doing well.

Becky

[shelliemacs]

ok, I am chiming in here too cause this is all striking a cord with me too. I'll join the DIWP group too (Dammin I Want Proof) I want to know my mom is up there with her twin and my first dad and that they are ok and know the hell that I am still going through down here waiting to see if my step dad has cancer too.

I cry leaving the hospital at night screaming at mom saying "Its just not fair, I just went through this 5 months ago. when is enough, enough?, cant you see your baby girl is in pain and can't you make it go away" but I haven't gotten any signs, at least none I have recogonized.

My cousin who passed away on 1/1/04 from cancer, his wife gets signs, she smells him, she said to me the other night when she was in her kitchen, I just smelled him walk by me. I got the willies. I also got jealous. I want that. I want my mom to haunt me and keep me up like the mom from that show Providence where the mom had a heart attack and died and always came back to her daughter in dreams and had full on conversations about what was happening in her life.

got I am really wiggin here.

life lately seems like I am going into restaurants and always getting served fish....and I hate fish.

someone slap me ok.

[gail]

Just wanted you guys all to know how impressed I am with your words, your honesty, and your courage to share. It sounds very much like the greving process--shock/denial; anger/depression, moving toward acceptance. (Yes, this is very simplified, but all my little brain can handle.)

I posted once before the name of a book

How to Survive the Loss of a Love: one of the authors is Bloomfield. I have given it to people who are grieving and they usually come back and thank me for it.

Hugs and prayers for you all

gail

[gail]

Because we have all seen how precious life is, I just drove an hour each way to spend some time with my parents. Just me. My husband asked me why and I told him

"They are both 75 years old and leaving for a month in Florida"

I do not want any regrets with them.

gail

[MO_Sugar]

I wish I had the words to make it all better for each of you but there are no words. I lost my Mom to cancer in 1992 after her second round. She had actually died in 1987 and was very upset when the Dr.s "brought her back". She made us all promise then that when she went again we would do nothing to stop it. She told us had seen her father and mother and others who had gone before her and she wanted to be with them. Ever since then I have counted that as my PROOF there is more to come than this old world. I am in no hurry to leave here but when I do I look forward to seeing those I loved who are waiting for me to catch up.

God Bless you all,

MO

[DeanCarl]

Deb Pam and Shelly,

I took my time in posting this because I wanted to think about what you all have said. You see, not only do I have this disease, my Mom died from it 5 years ago. It's a bit amazing to me that, considering how long this tumor has been growing in me, my body was already being invaded by it while I watched my Mom pass away. I just didn't kow it at the time.

I went through a lot of what you are feeling. Especially the part about not remembering, at times, that my Mom was no longer here. We often talked for long periods of time on the telephone about all kinds of stuff, often things we'd seen or read about in the news. For awhile, after she'd died, I'd find myself reaching for the phone when a story came on the news that I knew would have interested her. It took a while before I stopped doing those kind of things.

So as far as the "denial" question goes. I sure don't see any. It's only been a few months since you all lost someone very important in your lives. Coming to grips with this takes time. I wish it didn't. But it does. Little by little things get better. I KNOW this to be true from my own experience.

A question of faith: I never recieved any signs that my Mom (or my Dad who died of a heart attack in 1979) were in another place and doing ok. I had to look, instead, inside my self for those answers. And I found them. I found a place deep inside where the real truth lives. I KNOW now the Rainbow Bridge is real and there's a special little beagle waiting for me. I KNOW my Dad knows I've conquored the demons that plagued my life, even though he died just before I got sober. I KNOW my Mom is with him and is waiting for me to come and join them and be a family again (that was the most important thing in the world to her).

I know these things to be true because my heart tells me they are true. And, when I've taken the time to listen, my heart has never lied to me. My mind will lie to me all the time ... but never my heart. My mind tries to fill me with fear ... my heart fills me with courage. My mind tries to cause me to despair ... my heat fills me with hope. My mind creates confusion and anxiety ... my heart brings me calm .. and the truth.

If I could give you one gift it would be the ability to find that place within you. I had created a lot of "road blocks" in my own head over the years. Road blocks that kept me from seeing where the answers to all my questions lay. It took a lot of work to find that place, but it was more than worth the effort. It's there. Keep looking. Keep digging. And don't forget to share what you find.

Yea, it hurts ... big time. But there IS a light at the end of this tunnel. I know THAT for a fact.

Dean

[lilyjohn]

Debbie

My mom died in 1985 from lung cancer. I lived 2500 miles from her. Something told me to go home and see my family. Now you would think I would know that sense she had lung cancer but the kicker is I didn't know she had lung cancer. She had told me that she had a lump. I asumed it was in her breast. She never told me any differently. She had radiation treatments and was told it was gone. There were no follow ups. I got here to California to see her and found her very different. She would fall asleep all of the time. Not long before she had passed out one day coming into the house through the garage. It was a very hot day so everyone assumed it was the heat. Her ankle was treated and nothing else done.

When I got here she seemed okay physically. Her attention wandered a bit and she would fall asleep. We took her to the doctor one day because she had made an appointment. She wasn't feeling right. It was then that I learned that she had lung cancer. Ten months after she had treatment. Later she ended up with pneumonia and was sent home with oxygen. Her mind started disappearing for hours. She was not the Mama I remembered. She had always been so strong. She worked hard all of her life. Now she was totaly dependant on my dad. She never had any pain. I was always thankful for that because my mom could not stand pain. I have no idea how she had 6 children at a time when they had none of the things they do today. I was the only one born in a hospital. I watched and saw her dignity going. I knew that she was dying. Still I was in denial. To make it shorter she kept getting worse and I had been here for 2 months. I had to get back to my family. The morning I left she was calling my name as I walked out the door. My husband told me that if I went back I would never leave. So I left with her calling me. To this day I can hear her voice calling my name.

We stopped in Reno for one night. Then went for breakfast. When we got back to our room the maid was leaving. She had been leaving a note to tell me that Mama had died that morning. We came back for her funeral and stayed for another week. I never had a sign that she was with me in all of the years sense her death. Then last year after Johnny died things started happening that I couldn't explain. I told myself that I was doing those things even when my heart told me it was Johnny. Like you I kept asking for proof. I kept getting more and more but still I question. Sense his death I have had hundreds of signs. In my heart I know it is Johnny but my rational mind tells me to not believe. I have learned that my mind tells me that because I am afraid that if I ever really believe totaly that it is Johnny the signs will stop. I don't want that to happen so I deny them and question myself.

I grieved for my Mama but I saw her suffer. No she didn't suffer pain but she suffered the loss of all that she had been. I know now that the cancer had probably gone to her brain but she was never tested nor treated for that. In it's way it was a blessing. Her mind hid the pain of the cancer. She never felt the pain. Because of what I saw with her I was almost relieved to see her not have to go through those things again. In her casket she looked like my mama again. Because of those things I was able to go on. I missed her but I had been so far away from her already that it was not a day to day thing. It made my grief no less just gave me more time to accept it. I finally did all of my grieving for her, my dad, my 3 brothers and Johnny's sister after Johnny died. I came to terms with their deaths but am still having a problem coming to terms with Johnny's.

One night a few months after Johnny died I was in terrible shape. I was trying to read a book when I smelled something. It lasted such a short time that I couldn't tell what it was. The next night it happened again. Still I didn't know. The third night it came to me and never left until I realized what I was smelling was cooked tomatoes. Mama worked in a canery for over forty years. So many times we sat in the parking lot waiting for her to get off work with the smell of those tomatoes going through the whole car and following us for a long time after we left there. After over 17 years I finally had the sign that my Mama was with me. She came to comfort me and no one will ever make me believe any different!

I still get signs from Johnny nearly every day and still I question. I will always question so maybe he will keep sending them to me. Our loved ones are with us. When we need them the most they are here but we have to be open to them. I never was until I lost Johnny and my need made me accept what I knew. Still I want more proof!!

[J.C.]

Not much I can add to all that was written,

But as I get older, soon 76, I recall all the signs I got through

my life, BEFORE and AFTER the death of many family members

and friends and lately, my husband.

It started in 1945, when my brother died in the war.

I was so stunned that time that I talked to my mother about it

she also had many signs during her life from people that were

going or gone.

It has never fail me yet and I am sure the signs are there for

you also, one day will come for you and you will feel, see, hear,

taste or smell and you will know.

I do not have to tell you to welcome it, you are already

waiting and it will happen.

Love to all

J.C.

[Ry]

Now this is the Debaroo I know and love. As soon as I saw the title to your post, I knew you were coming around. You think you're screwed up? You're so wrong. You're coming back slowly but surely. I used to love reading your long drawn out funny posts about shopping with your sister, yada yada yada and they dwindled a long time ago. But now here you are, the old Debaroo and yes the subject matter isn't funny, but you can't help yourself.

I for one will not be offended and I would love to read how funny you were at the wake. I also find humor all around me, even at my dad's funeral. Hang in there Deb and welcome back.

Rochelle

[ginnyde]

My mother was 42 when I was born and she was the youngest of 9 children. My father died when I was 7 and my much older sisters were gone from the house by then.

So I have joked that I spent my childhood attending wakes and funerals with my mother. In the beginning, I could not understand how people could be laughing at these occasions. I know now.

We miss, mourn and grieve when someone we loves dies. We will never ever stop missing them. However, it is most important to remember them happily. Try not to remember the bad times, try to remember the happy times. Talk about them and laugh about them. That is what our love ones would want, to be remembered when they were vital and alive.

Just my two cents.

Ginny

[cathy]

Dear Deb,

After I read your post I thought to myself, I wish I had half your strength. The PEACHES story is so heartwarming, and it sounds to me that it definately was your daddy whispering to your precious daughter. God if I could only get a sign that is so real like that, I think I could begin to heal. I never get tired of reading your post, you really know how to tell a story. Dont ever doubt yourself, trust what your feeling like Dean said trust your heart. The first thing I thought of when you said that you were not satisfied with one sign you had to see another, my theory is you know its daddy and you miss him so much that you just want him near whenever he can be and who wouldnt want that. As far as denial how do we really know. I think only time will tell.... God bless you Deb.....

[Debaroo]

Thank you all SO MUCH for your responses, I can't tell you what a help it was to read them, and NOT FEEL CRAZY!

Cathy, you might be receiving signs-try to open your heart andmind to them. I know that something along the lines of lightening would be nice-something obvious and loud, but look for the subtle ones, ones that you might overlook. I bet your Dad is sending them, they might not be majestic, but they are things that might suddenly make you think of your dad...or might appear when you think of him.

Ginny, your 2 cents are invaluable, and I feel the same, if we don't share memories, we do our loved ones AND ourselves a great disservice.

Ry, thank you, thank you, thank you (I am taking a bow).

"Coming soon to the Just for Laughts Forum: Debi in her only appearance at her dads wake and funeral" Keep an eye out for it!

J.C., thank you for sharing your experience, my doubts were vanishing as I read your post.

Lilyjohn, you are truly inspiring, how you have taken life by the horns, and open your heart and mind to us all, and to your Johnny!

Dean, you explained exactly how I feel. I know so surely that my heart is right and that there is a 'heaven', that my dad IS alright and that I WILL see him again, someday. That feeling has given me such peace since Daddy was diagnosed, and, especially, since his death. My dad knew it with all of his heart, and he never doubted...I am tearing down those roadblocks, because the mind is not wise enough to understand-only the heart and the sould can feel it. I can't explain it, except to say that, when I think about Daddy and his death, I feel calm. Serene. I, too, know for a fact.

MO, your sharing your Moms experience and the blessing that she gave you by sharing it with you are now a blessing to me. My dad had an experience as a child, he shared it with my sister and I 2 years ago when he was in the hospital and first diagnosed with lung cancer. I then understood why he wasn't afraid, whe he wasn't bitter and why he always had HOPE. His sharing his experience with me was such a blessing to me-as your moms was to you. I am so grateful for it.

Oh, and I have decided to allow myself to be content. To not let the brain question what my heart knows. The brain is a useful thing, except for when it comes to matters of faith. For that job, I have FIRED my brain!!!

Gail, I am getting that book, thank you for sharing it with us. And also, a toast to you "NO REGRETS!" (clink) cheers!

Shelly, I am so sorry for all that you are being dealt. I hope that your stepfather is doing alright, have you gotten any test results back yet? I think about you often, and wonder how you are doing. Please keep us posted, and if you need anything, please PM me.

Becky, You are right! I do feel like the time I spend thinking about my dad makes me feel like I am spending time with him! Thank you so much for articulating it, I really hadn't thought of it that way, but you hit the nail right on the head BAM!!!! Thank you!

Pam, your orig. post has been such a blessing to me, as it has made me come to terms with my own feelings, something that I was afraid to do. Your writing about thinking you saw your dad really chokedme up,a s I have had similar experiences (my dad had silver/grey hair, too!) And also, you are NOT A DRAMA QUEEN!!! I hope that you keep in touch. Now take a deep breath, WE ARE IN THIS THING TOGETHER!!!

Dave, thank you for your kind words., You are so lucky to have heard your father sayt hat he loves you. I am lucky that my dad was very open in sharing his feelings, too. And it is such a beautiful memory to have.

Thanks to you all, take care, deb

[Karma1976]

Debaroo I love reading your posts! I am glad you and your children get signs...They ARE around. it is the weirdest things. In the first few weeks of my dad's passing...they were daily. now he comes in my dreams A LOT. like every 2-3 weeks.

there was this Broadway show I wish he could have heard the cast recording to and seen (for some reason i know he would have loved it) and for some reason i had a dream this one night that I went with a large group and he comes into the row. I was like oh dad i am so happy you are going to get to see this and asked to sit next to him...it was the weirdest thing but i REALLY felt like we saw the show together. Weird I know but I think they are all around us. They are there and they do watch! That can definitely ease my thoughts a lot. As long as the bathroom is off limits...hahaha

here is another one and i SWEAR this is him and freaky. I have these silver hoop earrings. I have a thing with gold...I hate it. haha and I am sensitive to fake metals in my ears so I have to get real silver hoops. Well i always always lose these hoop earrings cause they have a safety latch and release the second you pull on them..(so no ripped ears in bar brawls...kidding) anyway this cause them to be lost easy BUT i love these type of earrings and really are the only ones I have gotten that really do not aggravate my ears. WELL after my dad's passing, I was in this tribute show to my late high school drama teacher. We had practice every night and this one night I came home (after we stopped at a bar after to dance and sing karaoke) and one earring was gone. chalked it up to I lost it. So went in the next day....it was on the podium. ok fine. I thought awesome now I do not have to buy new ones. Another time we are out and about lost one. find it outside the school. perfectly fine. lost one again NO IDEA where it is I was a lot of places. I come home it is sitting on my outside banister......like someone picked it up and said you dropped this Janine. I could not lose these. so the other day. I was at the gym come home you guessed it one hoop GONE! now i knew it was gone at a gym.......I picked up my coat the next day to go to work, it was perfectly sitting on my coat!! perfectly. it was not there the night before...So i think my earring is another way he connects with me. He doesn't want me to loose them...or have to pay 30 bucks for new ones since he was a budget man himself. hehe.

[Debaroo]

Karma, thank you so much for your earring adventures-and I agree, the bathroom MUST be off limits (sometimes I try NOT to think about my dad if I happen to be changing, as I am afraid that he'll get a feeling I need him and pay me a visit-can spirits go blind??? FRIGHTENING!!! . Take care, Deb

[TeeTaa]

I realize I'm coming to the ballgame late here, but I enjoyed your posts so much that I just HAVE to respond. My Daddy died of lung cancer almost 30 years ago, when I was not even 10 years old. Over the years, I've gotten so, so many signs, and it FINALLY got to the point where I simply smile to myself whenever I get one. The most prominent one involves those bright orange construction machines called Ditch Witches. Daddy sold these when I was a very young girl, and we always had them parked out in our side yard. It seems that whenever I am down and out, in a quandary about something, or even going through a really good time in my life, there will be a Ditch Witch 'round just about every bend in the road!

A more touching sign was at my wedding almost nine years ago. We had a small outdoor wedding at my sister's log cabin down in the woods (ViVi, for those of you who follow the posts!), and it was a very warm, still May day. Just as the service began, a breeze, VERY unexpected and uncharacteristic for the current weather conditions, came through the woods. We all just knew that Daddy was there to see his baby finally get married. The wonderful preacher didn't miss a beat - she incorporated the breeze right into the service, and I think everyone there - even those who hadn't known me as a child - experienced something really special that day.

Now that my big brother T-Bone has been diagnosed with NSCLC, it seems as if I haven't seen hardly any Ditch Witches, and DARNIT - I NEED TO SEE SOME!! But I think Daddy is giving me other signs that I'm just too stressed out right now to recognize. But there is one I got and I want to share it with y'all. A few days after T-Bone's diagnosis, I was in SuperTarget, and as I was walking around trying to figure out why I was even in there (as has been the case often since the diagnosis!), something drew me over to the book section and made me pick up a book called "After Life" by John Edward. Now keep in mind here that I've NEVER even heard of, much less watched, John Edward's TV show called Crossing Over, and until a few months ago probably would've just laughed at anyone who tried to encourage me to read such a book. But I did buy it, and I couldn't put it down from that point forward. I don't know about all that psychic medium stuff, but the discussions about signs given by our loved ones who've "crossed over" are absolutely amazing. I've since bought another one of John Edward's books and want to schedule a reading (but I can't figure out if it should be for T-Bone or I should selfishly get one for me!)

Sorry for the long post, but again, your messages touched me. Gotta close for now . . . need to go do some reading!

Blessings,

TeeTaa

[lilyjohn]

I too enjoy John Edwards books as well as others on the subject. I started reading them after I had several experiences that I can not explain away. I speak of one in a post I made in the general area "experiences or dreams" That one could be explained away by saying I was dreaming tho I know that I have never before or sense had a dream as vivid as that experience was. There have been many more at least a hundred sense my Johnny's death a little over a year ago. This is the first time that I have experienced anything like that so it leaves me awed and comforted. They also leave me confused at times because I think everyone believes me to be stange for talking about such things.

None the less these things happen and no one can explain them any other way. I believe our loved ones are always near and give us what we need to continue our life. They just don't interfere. I hope that you continue to have those experiences. They really help. As for John Edward good luck. I would love to go too but he is booked years in advance.

[Pam]

As far as John Edwards - I signed up for his mailing list - they have at least a three year wait before he will take a new list.....

I would give anything to find a real psychic, one that could give me a message about my dad......

[sharyn]

I was going to bring up the John Edwards thing myself. I watch his show almost every day and I get great comfort hearing the stories and connections that he makes. I do believe that those we love continue to watch over us... I do believe that they are "ok" and that they would not want us to grieve. Deb the fact that you think you are gettings "signs" and are verbalizing it... is probably because they are signs. Someone asked JOhn Edwards once.. "how do i know it was a sign" and his reply was" when you want to share it with someone, it usually means it was a sign" In other words.. .you know sometimes you dream and when you wake up you say... oh that was just a dream, but then you may have another dream and you wake up and say... I really need to share this with someone... THATS THE DIFFERENCE.... Love, Sharon