CDC Says…. Vaccine Round Three

[Rower Michelle]

What do you guys think?   Personally, I’m finding the government credibility to be on the low side, would rather have my doctor weigh in before getting in line this time.  
 

It seems the data set for which the CDC ACIP guidelines were announced this afternoon were based on five very small studies with a wide range of results.  

I can say one thing with certainty, I’m so sick of COVID! 
 

 

[Judy M2]

UPDATE: I thought I posted this earlier but I guess not. The rapid antibody test shows I still have IgG antibodies from the Moderna vaccine. So I will wait and see what they recommend. Luckily I'm not immunocompromised. The test cost $38, is a painless finger stick and takes 5 minutes. While waiting, I had a nice chat with the NP. 

[Rower Michelle]

Huh. So CVS can do an antibody test?  Did you need a prescription?  

[Judy M2]

No prescription needed, just sign up online and pick a date and time. Not all stores do this but I think chances are good if they have a Minute Clinic. 

[LouT]

Ladies,

The issues with antibodies are a few;
First: It is difficult to measure the strength of the antibodies or their presence at any given time.
Second: Remember that along with antibodies your body also creates a "memory" of the virus (memory B-Cells) so that if you are infected in the future, when the antibodies are no longer needed and the number of them drop, your body will again produce the antibodies if you are reinfected.  That is why you can only get a specific cold (rhinovirus) once although (unfortunately) there are over 300+ different cold viruses.
Third:  People who had Covid will have a stronger immunity than those with vaccine.  Part of the reason is that Covid contains many proteins and the vaccine targets one specifically while your body (when stricken with Covid) will produce antibodies against the spectrum of the virus.

So, you can be tested and get any peace of mind you will, but remember that while breakthrough cases are occurring they are resulting in much milder symptoms and much less need for hospitalization or death.  I hope this just gives you a bit more to think about.  My own personal choice is to stay with the two Moderna shots I had.  If I had taken Pfizer I would likely go for a booster.

Lou

[Babs]

Hi Lou,

I also got the Moderna vaccine.  Is there a difference in the recommendations between the Pfizer and the Moderna when it comes to the booster?  Any info is appreciated. Thanks,
 

Babs

[LouT]

Babs,

I believe that they are finding the Pfizer vaccine MAY be less effective against the Delta Variant than Moderna...but, please remember that it still has a greatly reduced chance that you will end up hospitalized or gravely ill.  I wouldn't panic, just wait until some more studies are done.  Science is really the study of data over time and under different situations so real conclusions may take some time. 

In the meantime you have protection so keep yourself safe to a level you are comfortable with and go on living.  

Lou

[Rower Michelle]

KU Cancer Center posted this article on their Twitter page which basically says let’s wait and see…. 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/hematologyoncology/othercancers/93991?xid=nl_mpt_DHE_2021-08-12&eun=g1624820d0r&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily Headlines Top Cat HeC 2021-08-12&utm_term=NL_Daily_DHE_dual-gmail-definition

[Judy M2]

After being in stores lately with almost no mask wearing, I am now sufficiently creeped out and anxious. I almost fled from Target last week. It's easier for me to default back to isolation than to deal with the anxiety. I am sick of being sick (as I was for the better part of last year) and now that my health is good, I'm taking no chances. I don't even want to get a cold. I envy those who are brave, but I'm not willing to accept any risk at this point. 

[Tom Galli]

Michelle & Judy,

I am leaving the decision about a COVID booster up to my GP. He believes I have enough medical complications to justify a booster if and when it becomes available. He told me the CDC information are guidelines, not gospel.  Moreover, the CDC does not treat, he does and he'll make determinations of medical necessity for his patients. I got my two vaccines (Moderna) at his practice, and that is where I'll get my booster when available. 

Because of problems you mention Judy, I'm following your lead. I am restricting my contact with others and limiting (nearly eliminating) any exposure to buildings where people are (regardless of their masked status) [Of course I'll wear one]. While there have been lots of discussion of mask effectiveness, social distancing in and out doors has been shown to be very effective. I dread thinking about the possibility of mayhem with unvaccinated children returning to school! I keep reciting on my mantra: I don't want to waste all the heartbreak of surviving a lung cancer diagnosis to be taken out by a virus!

I don't want to get a cold either. A garden variety cold will put me down for weeks. It could put me in the grave! I dread thinking about the havoc of unvaccinated children returning to school! That mixing, if it doesn't lead to virus infection, will likely lead to other illness, and isolation from children is something I'll practice.

I think everyone can agree that the virus (regardless of flavor) is out there, and the safest course of action for people in treatment or with compromised immune or pulmonary systems is to stay away from out there!

Stay the course and stay alive!

Tom

 

[Julia g]

I had Covid in April along with my husband and duaghters. I had surgery and brought the nasty virus home from the hospital. We were sick for about two weeks. It wasn't pleasant. We have not gotten vaccinated and are definitely on the fence due to natural immunity. I respect everyone's individual choice as they navigate what is best for their bodies. Tough decisions. 

[LexieCat]

3 hours ago, LouT said:

Third:  People who had Covid will have a stronger immunity than those with vaccine.  Part of the reason is that Covid contains many proteins and the vaccine targets one specifically while your body (when stricken with Covid) will produce antibodies against the spectrum of the virus.

I'm pretty sure this isn't correct. Every article I've read says that vaccine-based immunity is stronger. Here's a recent CDC page discussing two recent studies: https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2021-08-06-cdc-study-confirms-vaccinations-greater-protection-against-covid-19.

I'll check with my doc on my trial as to whether a booster is advisable, and act accordingly. I'm avoiding indoor spaces with unmasked people--had to sell a concert ticket last week because the venue wasn't requiring masks.

 

[Julia g]

@Rower MichelleMichelle you got me thinking more seriously about my antibodies for COVID and I went this afternoon to a State certified Testing site for the Rapid Antibody Test. (75$ cash and Also insurance eligible, no scrip required) It was a simple finger stick. My results show Antibodies for COVID. My husband and I did some research and the medical experts are not sure if the antibodies last 1-3 years or possibly for a lifetime with natural immunity. My family and I are going to wait to get vaxed.  I hope the medical community will do more studies on those of us who have recovered from COVID. 

[Rower Michelle]

Hi Julia,

That’s exactly what our PCP said as well, that natural immunity from a previous Covid infection will long surpass that of the current mRNA vaccines.   
I’ve got a call in for an appointment on Monday for antibody testing.  I see that CVS has something similar available for $38 in my area.   

[LouT]

Lexie,

The vaccine targets only one of Covid's protein whereas most natural immunity is more complete and may be useful in the case of variants...  Of course I'm still waiting for our government and their experts to really study natural immunity.  I haven't really read anything peer-reviewed to indicate that natural immunity is "less effective than the vaccine" and frankly the CDC has a habit of quoting numbers and data out of context, but that aside you need to consider vaccine versus natural length of immunity and which one may be more broad based in preventing reinfection and resistance to new variants. 

Dr. Makary of Johns Hopkins has some insight to what is being seen in this regard.  But, frankly I still believe that there is a benefit to natural immunity.   The article can be found here.   One quote from the article:

“It appears that natural immunity is better against the Delta variant. When you get infected with COVID, your body’s immune system develops antibodies to the entire surface of the virus,” Makary said. “Not just the slight protein that the vaccines gives you, but the entire surface. And so you get a more diverse antibody portfolio in your system.”

Having stated my opinion, I'm with Tom in that if my doctor recommends a booster I would get it.  

Lou
 

[LouT]

21 hours ago, Rower Michelle said:

Hi Julia,

That’s exactly what our PCP said as well, that natural immunity from a previous Covid infection will long surpass that of the current mRNA vaccines.   
I’ve got a call in for an appointment on Monday for antibody testing.  I see that CVS has something similar available for $38 in my area.   

Michelle,
I watched the president of Moderna this morning and presently they are saying that studies are showing that people that got the Moderna vaccine in January have a present protection rate of 75%, down from the original 90% while folks who got Pfizer are down to 45%.  But make no mistake, vaccinated or natural immunity; if you do get the variant your symptoms would be considerably less severe.  But folks who are immuno-compromised may need different consideration.  Again, a good reason to go with your doctor's recommendations.

Lou

[Rower Michelle]

Thanks Lou, it really does take a village to sort through this with the media being the least reliable source of information.  I had the Pfizer vaccine so I’m guessing even though I’m not immunocompromised, there’s a third vaccine in my near future.  We head to Maine on September 11th for vacation which I don’t want to miss out on… 

[LouT]

You're so right Michelle.  In my lifetime I believe this is the first disease to be politicized and it has caused so much mistrust, although much of it well placed.  If Pfizer is approved for a booster and your doctor believes it best then I would do it.  I hope you have a great time in Maine, and bring you camera.  The colors must be striking in September.

Lou

[Rower Michelle]

I got an appointment scheduled with Tim’s PCP scheduled for a COVID antibody test tomorrow afternoon.  Evidently not all antibody tests are created equally… the quicky results aren’t as sensitive so I’m getting poked in the arm not a finger prick.  Will find out more tomorrow.  Talk about the fog of war, there’s conflicting reports everywhere right now.  At least I feel like I’m trying to make an informed decision.   Whatever the results are I will send over to my oncologist since this is outside of the KU system.  What’s very curious to me is that KU Cancer Center has issued no communication or guidance.  I assume they’re sorting through all of this too? 

[hillham]

I just made an appointment for a shot tonight at 7. I'm on the fence about it. I had two Pfizer shots in January, and I tested positive for Covid in December, but never showed symptoms. My oncologist told me that the antibody spike tests are very unreliable. Ugh. The issue is that this weekend I am traveling by plane to a state with very low vaccination rates and where the wearing of masks is considered a threat to personal liberty by quite a few people. Once I arrive, I can easily stay away from places where I don't feel safe, but it's the airport/airplane that worries me most. To top things off, I'll be returning to the classroom in September, and many of my students will most likely NOT be vaccinated. I wasn't going to do the booster until later, but now I'm starting to worry!  

[ChiMama]

I don't know that I would technically qualify for the booster at this point (stage 1, no chemo), but when the time rolls around I would get it if my oncologist & pulmonologist recommend it.

@hillhamI used to travel extensively and haven't since COVID started... Planes and airports have always been germy environments, and I've always wiped down my seat area and mastered the art of not touching anything.  If and when I go back to an airport/airplane, I will be wearing my high filtration respirator mask, a shield, gloves, and a hoodie. That's how I dress to shop these days, and I'm sure it looks weird to some people but I don't care.  I call it my Ninja look.  😎   The shield makes me feel so much safer than a mask alone!

[Rower Michelle]

In this day and age nothing qualifies as weird.  We are doing what we gotta do, so why not bedazzle the shield! 

[ChiMama]

@Rower MichelleI did bedazzle it! Got a pack of 10 on Amazon, and the blue & white FACE SHIELD across the top is a little too much for my taste, so I put leopard print duct tape across the top. Now that it's summer, I wear a high collared long sleeve shirt and a wide brimmed hat instead of the hoodie.

Glasses perch on the nose so I don't have to take them on and off.  Once I leave the house everything stays on until I get home again.

My doctor visit and "safer space" attire is just the mask and big glasses, no hat or shield.

Since we're in this, we may as well get creative!
 

 

 

[Rower Michelle]

Just got my blood test results, “excellent response to spike protein detected”.  Recommendation is to re-test in a few months since my second shot was on 4-1.    The general concern is with getting a third shot now would be worse than anticipated side effects.   So the next arm jab will be for the flu in late September.  

[Judy M2]

I think I'll do flu shot on Labor Day (our usual routine ever since my husband once got the flu in August somehow) and #3 in October. 

@ChiMama, I like your Ninja lewk!