Jump to content

Cough Shortness of Breath


Bob P

Recommended Posts

Hi,

I'm 3 months post surgery for a small NSCLC nodule. Surgeon removed a lobe and the nodule (of course) with no need for radiation or chemo.

The weird thing is that if I try to voluntarily take a deep breath, my diaphragm and stomach muscles contract and I cough.  It's like my body is trying to protect me from hurting myself by breathing deeply.  The funny thing is that I can take a deep breath to sneeze or yawn or exercise; it only kicks in when I'm talking on the phone or trying to have a conversation.

Most of the time I'm fine and the pulmonologist doesn't know what it is; he just says call him back if it's not better in 6 months or a year.

I really am not complaining;  many people in here have many more serious problems but I'm just wondering if anyone had a similar experience and how long it took to get over it.

Bob P

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I had lobectomy 9/6, and I wasn’t coughing the first week and a half. Now I can’t have a conversation. I can’t use my spirometer without coughing. It’s worse in the afternoon and evening, maybe because I still take gabapentin at night. This much coughing is a quality of life hit, so don’t worry about complaining! I’m glad to be alive, but I’m worried this will never go away. 

My doctor prescribed a med that numbs the lungs and makes them less likely to react. It helps some. They also recommended Claritin to help dry things out. The gabapentin might help, but I’m not sure if that means the coughing is a nerve thing or if it’s just sedating me. 
 

Did your doc do an X-ray to check? I have small pleural effusion, but from what I’m reading, I have to kind of wait for my body to reabsorb it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Julie,

Wow, I thought I was the only one with the problem. Your condition is worse than mine. It's so soon after surgery for you, I'm thinking it will get better soon.

Same thing with the spirometer with me; if I breath in, I get an automatic cough and my body says: "Stop that!".  I think mine is slowly getting better.  Doc gave me no meds.  I'm learning to live with it and follow the pulmonologist's advice about waiting 6 months to a year; not much choice.

Mine is worse in the evening also when, at times, I can't breath in so I can't talk.  Usually only lasts about 5 minutes. 

I think it's some kind of subconscious, psychological reflex with me; it kicks in when I try to talk to a certain person on the phone.  Weird, huh?  

They did do an x-ray right after the surgery and said everything looked fine.

Let me know, in a few weeks, if that pleural effusion gets reabsorbed and you are done with the coughing/breathing problems.  Fingers crossed.

Bob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got a nasty dry cough about 2 weeks after my lobectomy. It was worst when I spoke, which was so annoying. It took many weeks for it to improve. I occasionally cough now but not sure it is the same reasons but certainly nothing like previous cough intensity.

Hang in there, it gets better (but check with your doctor if it feels bad or does not improve; I had 2 X-rays to check on chest), and congrats your cancer was caught so early!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Lily,

Thanks for responding.  Mine started a week or two after surgery also. I think my body was afraid to cough or sneeze or yawn for a couple of weeks until it felt safe to do so.

Yes, I'm lucky they caught it early; they were actually looking for a shadow on my pancreatic duct they thought might be a problem after a routine lab test showed an elevated bilirubin. Nothing came of the pancreas or the bilirubin but the lung nodule did show up.  They took it out within a week after my biopsy showed an aggressive form of cancer.

I've still got the dry cough, four or five times a day, but it's not painful so I'm just learning to live with it.  

I'm hoping it gets better after a while, like you say.

Bob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/4/2022 at 11:28 AM, Bob P said:

Hi,

I'm 3 months post surgery for a small NSCLC nodule. Surgeon removed a lobe and the nodule (of course) with no need for radiation or chemo.

The weird thing is that if I try to voluntarily take a deep breath, my diaphragm and stomach muscles contract and I cough.  It's like my body is trying to protect me from hurting myself by breathing deeply.  The funny thing is that I can take a deep breath to sneeze or yawn or exercise; it only kicks in when I'm talking on the phone or trying to have a conversation.

Most of the time I'm fine and the pulmonologist doesn't know what it is; he just says call him back if it's not better in 6 months or a year.

I really am not complaining;  many people in here have many more serious problems but I'm just wondering if anyone had a similar experience and how long it took to get over it.

Bob P

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Bob, 

I didn't have the same type of reactions to coughing as you have, but if it makes you feel better the cough does go away after a while.  I googled and di many different searches as to how to relieve the coughing as nothing seemed to help me and the pain that the coughing was causing was pretty bad. What really worked was reflexology of the hands. Do a google search of this and you will see the different pressure points on the hands.  Also make sure to continually to the breathing exercises with the spirometer.  I was faithful for a few months then went back to work f/t which slowed me down on my walks each day and I did not do the spirometer as often which is a big mistake.  I ended up feeling very ill and then coughed up a bund of stuff...  So again, a reminder It takes about 6 months for the lungs to heal.  You may feel great but thrust me when I say they are still healing.    Keep doing the multiple walks daily and the breathing exercises 4-5 times a day.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Forgot to say I had my upper left lobectomy and 13 lymph nodes removed on June 2, 2022.  All labs came back cancer free.  So the 8 hours of chemo and immune therapy treatments seemed to work well for me so far....  They treated me with a very aggressive treatment plan (as a stage 4 end of life even though I was only a stage 3b).  Feeling blessed and also guilty at the same time if that makes sense.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Yvetteh,

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm definitely going to try the pressure points you mentioned; I don't have much faith in cough medicines and I'm a pharmacist! (Unless you do the heavy-duty narcotic ones.)

I do walk 1.7 miles each day - FAST- and, strange, never get short of breath.  Every time I try the spirometer I can only get to 1500 and then start coughing; every time. My pulmo. Doc gave me permission to stop - he said my lungs were completely clear and open.

Wow, glad to hear you had a successful surgery!  The aggressiveness paid off..  As I said before, I was lucky they caught mine early so didn't need any chemo, etc.

2 medical people told me that whenever they operate in the chest and remove lymph nodes (like they did with me too), they do some damage to the nerves that are running around in there and that's what's causing the coughing. 

Edited by Bob P
added some stuff
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes Bob, please let us know about how your pleural effusion goes.  I am just past my 3-month mark and at my last ct scan showed that I have a little fluid in the left lower pleural.  It is scary when you research what this means.  I just hope my body absorbs it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yvetteh:

I think it was Julie_K that had the plural effusion but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that yours WILL go away soon!

bp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Bob, yeah my lungs look and sound good too according to my docs.  I really think it has something to do with how fast my heart beats at times. 

I have been able to view my scans to see my lung.  They removed my upper left lobe and byt he second day the lower lobe had extended up to where the upper lobe was.  At 3 months you can hardly tell that I had a lobectomy.  The body is so amazing....  

Have you had a chance to look at yours?  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If anyone is interested and having significant pain in the areas of surgery, I have another exercise that can be done to ease the pain without drugs.  It is done only with hand movements.  This was written by ? and was found on one of the many lung cancer sites I review.  I have found it to be very helpful.  I believe what it does is by you manipulating the areas (lightly) you are not only breaking up scar tissue, but also helping the nerve endings to find each other again?  This is just my educated guess.  I am not doing the bands yet, cause I am just now able to lift heavier items (more than 10 lbs) Give it a try and or pass it on. Wishing you all the best!  

"Hi. My daughter had just studying physiotherapy when I hadn't op and she advised me to go to physio. I saw 2 and both helped me in 2 ways. One at the time sounded a bit unconventional in her treatment but it worked. She was a neuro physio just by chance and she explained to me how nerves can become pain nerves after trauma and not 'sensation' nerves. I was completely numb front and side from having the traditional thoracotomy. She made me lie on the bed, eyes closed and slowly stroked one side from back to front across my rib area on the good side and then did the same on the site cut side and then did the 2 sides together. She said the brain likes symmetry and that we have to re-teach the brain that the nerves need to feel sensation not pain. I did this 3 times a day at home with my youngest daughter and after 3 weeks I started to have sensation and less 'nervy' pain. I have full sensation now except on scar tissue but still have pain in lower rib area that has never gone away. Just twinges. I went to a respiratory physio who didn't really help.me for the breathing but I met an amazing young man who when I told him my issues said he knew exactly what was wrong. I couldn't even start for 5min or do anything that involves me uses my arms and torso. The burning back and side ache was so painful. He explained the op and how they 'strength' you on the table etc and he started of with simple stretches. I had a band wrapped around both door handles (side on) or around a frame so you could pull on them both ends. I started with 5 and built up to 20 of pulling with straight arms to my side. Then bending my elbows and pulling in to my waist height. And once I got that so it wasn't to painful I made the band's into a circle about shoulder width, put hands inside slightly outstretched and tried to open my arms,.so the band's became the resistance. Just strengthening my muscles. He gave me other stretches and deep breathing exercises as he realised my lower rib cage wasn't moving at all really and that was 6 months after my op. So all that helped me within a month, pain and mobility wise but I just can't so much without becoming breathless. Walking up the stairs gets me haha I have to wait on top to catch my breath. Hope these tips could help you."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I haven't seen my x-rays.  I guess I could ask the surgeon or Pulmo. to post them on line so I could.  good idea.

You should make your last post a new post, new topic. Maybe something like: "Pain after surgery".  It looks good and would be very helpful for people having the type of pain you mentioned.

Thanks.

bp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi – Just wanted to let you know you're not alone in this!  I had an upper left lobectomy in July 2020 and coughed relentlessly for months afterwards. The first 3 months were so bad it was really wearing me down physically and emotionally. And there were no answers - It was so frustrating!

The only time I didn't cough was when reclining or sleeping, but upright I coughed most of the time, and any talking resulted in a prolonged deep coughing fit. There wasn't a lot of phlegm, just dry coughing and shortness of breath. I had a hard time doing the spirometer because it sent me into violent coughing.

My regular pulmonologist prescribed Symbicort, prednisone, and Albuterol, none of which worked, and I didn't take the Benzonatate (Tessalon Pearls) she prescribed out of concern for the side effects.

I finally started on the Benzonatate at the insistence of another pulmonologist. He and my regular pulm agreed that the coughing was most likely caused by irritation from the surgery and the healing process, which was then being further aggravated by the coughing in a vicious circle, and that taking it would break the pattern of coughing, retrain my system not to cough, and allow my body to start healing.  Within a couple of weeks of taking the Benzonatate, the coughing eased up, and 6 weeks later (4 months after surgery) I was 90% cough-free. The only triggers after that were excessive talking that caused me to run out of breath and then cough. And I had no side effects from the Benzonatate except less coughing! 😀

It took about 5 months to be mostly free of coughing. I do still get the random cough, but it's a superficial "light-style" cough, and once or twice a day is manageable compared to constant like it was at the beginning!

Hoping yours gets better too!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi ChiMama,

Wow, your coughing/S.O.B. problem sounds exactly like mine times 10!

Albuterol does no good because it's not a breathing out/wheezing problem, it's breathing IN problem that triggers the cough.

I'm going to ask my doc for some benzonatate tomorrow.  Thanks for the suggestion!

BP

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is hard to remember back to my year's worth of thoracic surgery and recovery and breathing and coughing. ChiMama's mention of Benzonatate prompted a recollection and a visit to my closet "pharmacy", a repository for all things prescribed and not used or finished during my treatment. There stood a half-filled bottle of Benzonatate so I obviously used it (It was the 4th refill).

Bob's post reminded me I have (had) 2 kinds of coughing problems and they had differing causes. Coughing while breathing in for me was a surgical side effect caused by raw, sutured airway tissue. Coughing while breathing out for me is an airway congestion problem caused by pollen, polluted air (smoke, dust), or a cold that settles into my chest.

Looking back, recovery from thoracic surgery and airway bolstering stent procedures in 2004 and 2005 was the most challenging breathing in time. I was in intense pain and like ChiMama and Bob P, breathing in was particularly difficult. It really hurt and it prompted coughing. Everything in my airway felt raw and the slightest encounter with dust or an odd smell resulted in a fit-of-coughing. For a time, like ChiMama, standing up or walking around fired my coughing reflex. Coughing spiked incision pain. Then fear set in. You know the drill.

I was really afraid of narcotic medication. After all, I was addicted to nicotine and read that opioids (morphine & heroin) have similar addictive properties. So I decided to avoid taking prescribed narcotic medications. Martha, my wife, recalls an admonition by my medical oncologist to take narcotic medication accompanied by a stiff rejoinder that expertise in civil engineering does not confer expertise in medicine! My airway needed to heal from the rough, repeated surgical interventions. Not calming the cough response was complicating and needlessly prolonging my recovery.

I used Benzonatate for a period after each surgery and stent procedure. It calmed my cough reflex and allowed me to walk around, talk quietly, and breathe in without coughing.  Medication works provided one uses it.

But opioid addiction is real and it is a big problem. How does avoid addiction? I can tell you how I avoided it. I involved Martha asking her to observe my narcotic medication use. She paid attention; we talked about pain before deciding to take something. Today, chronic pain and muscle cramps are my problem and sleep is my nightly challenge. An abdominal muscle cramp before bedtime will all most guarantee a night of late night TV. I could take prescribed narcotic pain medication, but that won't yield a restful sleep and will cause a dull-headed and constipated next day. I understand that narcotic pain medication doesn't relieve pain; it dulls my ability to feel it. My pain will be there in the morning regardless.

I chose treatment for my lung cancer and that yielded extended life. I am very lucky for that my extension will soon span to 18 years. I now realize that my life after lung cancer is vastly different than life before. There are complications. There are new challenges, and there are choices. I only know one thing for certain. I can't do life after lung cancer alone. I need people in my life who understand my problems and challenges. I find them here. Thanks ChiMama and Bob P for reminding me about breathing in.

Stay the course.

Tom

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your post.  What an ordeal but fascinating reading!  I would encourage everyone reading this to click on:  "Treatment history here", in Tom's post to get the full picture of what Tom went through 18 years ago. I've had a picnic compared to Tom.

The surgeons (at least mine) don't tell you what to expect after surgery other than you might have some pain or cough up blood or pieces of your lung, etc. Nothing about coughing.  So when it hits, you feel like you must be doing something wrong and it's a "Why is this happening to me" feeling.

I do have some narcotics in the medicine cabinet but I'm not going to use them because I can live with the bouts of coughing and I do think they are getting better over time and I'm going to try the benzonatate that ChiMana mentioned.

Thanks again for sharing your challenge and congrats on the 18 years. Wishing you many more to come.

Bob P

Edited by Bob P
Read Tom's post on RedToeNail.org
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.