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Copper Therapy (TM)


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Well, since it was brought up recently that there aren't many post in the Alternative category, I thought it was time to share this with you all!

I recently saw an Integrative Doctor through the Jefferson University Hospital in Philadelphia. He suggested that I go on Copper Reduction Therapy. The basis of this therapy is that lowering the copper levels in your body prevents your body from forming new blood vessels, which cancer needs to spread. It can be used either in Stage IV to prevent further growth (along w/ chemo) or while in remission to prevent a recurrence.

I know that Cary has several post in here regarding the same subject and I was able to find a lot of research based on his postings. I have sent all my research to my oncologist and am awaiting his response. I am very curious to see what he has to say, since one of my research articles actually came from the University of Pennsylvania Hospital, which is where I receive treatments.

I will keep you all posted!

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I didn't expect to hear back from my oncologist so quickly, but he just called me personally at work (he didn't have his nurse call, which I found very impressive!).

Anyway, after reading all the info I sent him regarding the Copper Reduction Therapy he told me he sees no reason not to do it and that he had another patient a few years ago (with a different kind of cancer) use it while taking chemo and had good results. He said there really isn't any downside to taking it, and there have been studies that show its benefit with cancer.

He also said that the nutrional supplements recommended by the Integrative Doctor were fine to take as well. ( I will list those in a seperate post).

If anyone would like more information on Copper Reduction Therapy, do a search on the word "copper" in here and several post come up by Cary that point you towards great articles and links.

ps -- Ginnie it's "Dr. HOTTIE", not "Dr. Cutie" :wink:

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That is great news Heather. I believe there are 1 or 2 older copper reduction drugs, but they were pretty toxic when used. That's the great benefit of TM, virtually no side effects and it has the potential to really make a difference. The links below are some of the more relevant articles dealing TM and copper reduction.

Cary

http://tinyurl.com/355ml

http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/c ... full/6/1/1

http://www.med.umich.edu/opm/newspage/2 ... search.htm

http://www.buy2k.net/lungcancersurvivor ... php?t=5878

http://www.cancerprotocol.com/role_of_copper.html

http://www.fdanews.com/dailies/dpa/1_17 ... 357-1.html

www.copperreduction.com

http://www.cancer.med.umich.edu/news/ra ... drug03.htm

http://www.med.umich.edu/opm/newspage/2 ... erdrug.htm

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Thanks for the info, Hebbie. I have read about this in the past but my impression was that it is strictly an anti-angiogenisis therapy. My feeling has been that suppressing new blood vessel formation limits the size of individual tumors but does NOT stop their formation or reduce existing tumors. For these reasons I have not put much emphasis in this area. I do take Celebrex (400mg/da) to discourage new blood vessel formation.

Do I have the right take on all this?

Dave S

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Dave,

I honestly am not sure about your take on the therapy -- Cary's father (Stage IV) has been on the therapy a little over a year now and is apparently doing well (along w/ Celebrex), but I do not know if it has shrunk his tumors or if it is simply preventing them from growing further.

I'm putting this question out there for Cary to respond to!

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Hebbie--

Thanks for your post.

Geoff has been researching copper reduction, too, recently--AND is going to, um, ask (demand?) that his mom get Celebrex along with her new chemo regimen tomorrow.

I will see if I can get him to post in greater detail.

Melinda

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Well, Dave brings up a good point, copper reduction with TM is not a cure, for most. While some people do have tumor reduction (clinical trial data, provided at bottom) others get stabilization and a few get no benefit at all, the same as with any therapy.

My dad originally had 45 tumors in his lungs (multiple 3 cm on down to 1-2mm{12-2002}), 21 brain tumors from 2.9CM down to 5mm(most over 1.5cm, July 2003) and uncountable(100's) enlarged lymph nodes throughout his abdomen and chest. His current situation is 15 1-2mm tumors in his chest, that's all.

Since my dad is stage IV we use TM to level the playing field, most therapies work better while on copper reduction(or most angiogenesis prevention drugs), as some clinical trials have pointed out(radiation, chemo etc.) We add and remove treatments all the time and try to manage his cancer as a chronic disease/illness. I don't believe it is possible to kill every single cancer cell in an advanced stage patient, while it does happen, it is not common or even practical to waste energy/time on.

I tend to focus on controlling angiogenesis and then add cytotoxic treatments to the mix. I feel it is useless to kill millions of cancer cells, even if only a few survive, they will only grow back and be just as big/bigger as before and/or they could met. There are numerous people on the board who have been in a remission from surgery/chemo/radiation, only to have a recurrence a short time later. Theoretically if you were on an anti-angiogenesis type of treatment the recurrence/tumors would be smaller and more easily to control and wouldn't be life threatening.

I can't pinpoint any one cause for my fathers responses, it is more than likely the combination of all his treatments. I don't really believe any one treatment(monotherapy) alone is going to have an effect on the long term outcome, that is where drug "cocktails" come into play. I do know that he was given only three months to live Dec. 2002 and then in July 2003 he was given 1 month. He is still here and active as ever. I already have back-up plans in place to use in combination with TM and his supplements, hopefully I never need them, but in case I do they are ready.

As for Hebbie and all the others on TM that don't currently have active cancer, I have no idea how TM will work for them, if they do happen to have a recurrence more than likely it won't be as severe/extensive as others without TM and any additional treatment they do undergo, should theoretically work better.

Cary

http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/c ... full/6/1/1

"Another level of complexity is added by the fact that in bulky disease, initially effective antiangiogenesis may cause brisk tumor necrosis, as was documented in the mass shown in Fig. 3 . Tumor lysis may result in the release of additional copper from the dying cells. In the case of the patient whose mass is shown in Fig. 3 , a transient rise in Cp was observed at approximately the same time as the ultrasound suggested that the large tumor mass might be undergoing central necrosis due to a significant decrease in blood flow. For these reasons, we conclude that a period of 60–90 days of Cp at the target level of 20% of baseline is a reasonable starting point for evaluation of response to anticopper therapy in future trials in patients with measurable disease. In the two patients who exhibited partial regression of lung lesions, tumor control may have begun earlier. It is also interesting to note that in both of these patients, the lung parenchymal metastases were the sites of tumor regression. It is possible that mild clinical copper deficiency impairs superoxide dismutase function (46) so that under conditions of high oxidant stress, such as those present in the lung, the metastatic foci are more susceptible to oxidative damage.

Despite individual differences, the use of three-dimensional ultrasound to determine the total blood flow to a given mass demonstrates that maintenance of mild copper reduction to 20% of baseline induced for at least 8 weeks appears sufficient to alter tumor blood flow. Due to the relative insensitivity of CAT to the blood flow or metabolic status of the lesions, parallel imaging modalities, as demonstrated here for three-dimensional ultrasound, will be required to assess functional response in addition to tumor size.

In light of the data presented above, we advance the preliminary conclusion that the size of solid tumors of a variety of types may be stabilized or decreased by TM, given sufficient time in a state of mild clinical copper deficiency represented by a decrease in Cp to or below 20% of baseline, as defined by this study. Among the patients maintained at the target Cp level for more than 90 days, a significant proportion of cases (five of six) were stabilized, with no detriment to their quality of life. However, in this population of patients with advanced disease, only 39% of those treated were able to be maintained at the target Cp for this duration."

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Cary,

Thanks very much for posting the info. It sounds like I should be more interested than I previously thought in copper reduction therapy. I'll certainly do a bit more research on it. Of course since I have one of the worlds most conservative oncologists, I'll have a difficult time getting a Rx (assuming one is needed).

Thanks again, Dave S

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Cary,

I'm very interested in getting mom on this drug. She has just restarted Chemo (carbo-taxol) and I want to give her every advantage I can. I have a question though about the dosage of TM. How did your doctor adjust the dosage to get your dad to the below 20% baseline. Did they keep upping the dosage until the copper level was where they wanted it? The excerpt you posted also indicates that they could not get (or at least hold) all the participants of the study to that 20% figure; do you know why? Also where do you get TM? Do you get yours in an 8 week supply of jellcaps as the study mentions? Thanks for all your info. on this by the way.

Best,

Geoff

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Geoff,

The dosage required in the beginning for most cancer patients is 120-140mg a day. They monitor your Ceruloplasmin levels (surrogate marker for copper, once TM is given copper serum tests are inaccurate), the range that you would want to maintain the Cp at is between 5-15mg/dl, The actual level depends on the individual person though. Once you start to get close to your target, they adjust the TM to maintain the proper level. My dad currently does 60-80 mg per day, it just depends on the week.

I don't remember everything about the clinical trial, so i am going to have to look it over again. I remember some of the individuals continued to advance and had to leave the trial(as with any clinical trial). In the real world though, I have never heard of anyone not being able to achieve the 80% of baseline, but I do know that copper reduction does not work for everyone unfortunately.

I get my TM from a compounding pharmacist, you need a prescription though. We only get TM in 30 day supplies, in the form of gel caps. If you get more pills you run the risk of them not being full strength by the time you use them.

as a side note, even once you get 80% below baseline, it still takes between 90-180 days for your tumors to use their stored copper and you can experience growth during that whole time period.

Cary

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Ok, now I'm excited about this--I have an appointment with my onc next week and will bring it up among the many other things I have planned to discuss with her. I usually take a file folder full of articles to her--but she's really very open so I'll be curious as to what she has to say.

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Cary, I appreciate all this info. Maybe you can clear something up for me regarding ceruloplasmin levels. Currently I am NED (for about 3 yrs). I just had my ceruloplasmin level taken and it was 29 mg/dl. According to Quest Labs, the normal range is 18-53, yet your post said it's best to be between 5-15. Can you explain to me the wide gap? Thanks so much.

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Alisa,

Congratulations on being NED for 3 years. A Ceruloplasmin of 29 is good, you would only want to be between 5-15mg/dl if you were doing copper reduction therapy. Then you actually want to get below normal ranges, but not far enough too cause any problems, that is where 5-15mg/dl comes into play.

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Dear Cary,

That makes sense. Thanks so much for the quick reply. And thanks for all the helpful information you always share with this message board.

Love,

Alisa

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