natalie Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 I'm trying to understand what my Dad is going through by reading whenever you all write about losing your spouse. When I really sit down and try to put myself in his situation, the pit of my stomach gets sick and I just feel awful for him...he was with my mom for over 38 years...he met her their first year in college. She was all he knew, she was the outgoing one, but they didn't have any outside friends as they got older. It was always my fear that my mom would go before my Dad because I didn't think my Dad would enjoy his life without my mom and I knew he'd be extremely dependent on me. I'm an only child and I'm don't know how to help him. I thought my family would step up to the plate in helping me keep him busy but they do minimal. They "forget" plans they make with him or they are "too busy". Then there's events with the family, but he doesn't want to go unless I'm there. I have a cousin who is throwing a party this weekend out of town and I told my Dad that his own brother and two sisters were going to be there so there will be his family there. He said "well, are you going?". I said, "no, I have things I got to do around the house" I'm actually not going because it's a great opportunity for my Dad to do something social (with his side of the family), while giving me time to myself without worrying about him being at home by himself. He then sounded really disappointed and said, "Well, I'll see what's going on around here first and what you are doing before I decide to go" Well, what's going on around here...is ME and my husband it's always ME. I'm his social calendar. I love my Dad and like to spend time with him, but I feel this guilt if I don't spend every day with him. I have one uncle that invites him over for weekend visits (this is on my mom's side) and I'm so thankful for that, but other than that, I'm his only social activity. If I give him advice such as "dad, I think it would really help to go back to work, it will keep your mind busy" he gets mad and takes it as if I'm telling him what to do, makes excuses, etc. It's not like I expect him to move on...I would never think it would be that easy. I can't even move on...so how could I expect him? I've told him this...I just want him to find some healthy outlets so he can go back to living life. He has no drive to do anything. He has not gone back to work. He started to go to a widow/widowers group, but doesn't want to go back because everyone is a lot older than him. I can't get him on the internet, he has tons of things to keep him busy around the house that he won't do, he sleeps in until 2pm, goes to bed about 4am. I'm really worried about him. I recommended anti-depressants, but he says he doesn't need them then he gets mad that I even suggest things and takes it as if I'm telling him what to do. He said he'd go to a counselor 3 months ago and he has yet to go. I hope you don't mind me giving the child's side of this I just think you are the best people to ask. Since you all are going through what my Dad is going through do you have any advice as to how I can help him get through this without him thinking I'm telling him what to do? How can I get him to meet people, friends his age? How can I get him to go back to work so he doesn't end up in a financial rut? I'm filled with worry and frustration. I hope I don't sound selfish...I swear this is in the best interest of my Dad. I want to help him live and enjoy time with people his age. I don't think it's healthy for him to have me as is only social outlet. My husband told me that I need to become "less available", but I can't do it. I've tried and I'm plagued with guilt and feel like I'm abandoning my Dad. The longest I've done this being "less available" thing is three days. Thanks in advance for your advice. Quote
Snowflake Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 Nat, I'm not the group you are asking for help from, can't tell you how your father feels, but had an idea while reading your post... You say that your father enjoys doing things with you, that he promised three months ago to try counseling and hasn't, that he's sure he doesn't need anti-depressants, etc., AND you've mentioned this guilt that you're feeling. Here's my suggestion: go to a family counselor together. There are counselors that deal with family issues and you going WITH your father would help him AND you. It would work on your relationship with your father (and if you're feeling guilty, it's because he's pulling those strings!) AND help both of you with some coping skills. Also, he would be able to (and probably encouraged to) meet with the counselor "on his own" and go over those oh-so-personal feelings that you DON'T share with him... A counselor could suggest the anti-depressants and maybe even get him to take them as a "crutch" while getting through the worst of his feelings - and then as a Band-Aid for the feelings that come out of nowhere later on. I wish you patience, strength and courage. Becky Quote
kimblanchard Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 Becky hit it right on the head. Everybody's grieving process is different, and we have different needs from our family and friends at different stages along the way. Right now, I wish my family would leave me alone more. But I think the family counselor idea is a great one. I posted earlier in one of the forums today about two things that really helped me. And the main one is that I want to treat each day as special as Becky would have. She fought this disease valiantly in attempt to watch our daughter grow up. She taught her classes each day because she wanted to improve this world and every class gave her a chance to do that. So now I am trying to take those things every bit as seriously as she did and squeeze as much meaning as I can from them. I don't know how to convey that mindset, let someone else touch that, but that is what I try to do each day. Good luck. Curtis Quote
cathy Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 Natalie, Your story sounds just like mine..I am not sure how you can help your dad because I am not quit sure how to handle my mom any more..All I know is I find that I cannot grieve the loss of my dad the way I need too, I have been trying to make sure my mom is ok and in doing that I lost myself somewhere along the way..I know the guilty feelings you are talking about too, but I decided just this past weekend that I cant do it anymore, I know now that by being there every single day was not healthy for me or her, I know I have to find my "new normal" and seeing my mom everyday was not normal..I am not sure if this helps you and I know I didnt really answer your question I just wanted you to know you're not alone and you really need to think about you, something I havent done in a while and I am not ashamed to say it..Pm me if you need to talk more.. Quote
Rosanne Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 I can relate to this because when my father died my mom really had a hard time. She relied on us for everything. My sister went and did everything for her around the house because she felt sorry fer her. One day I called and she was out of breath, I asked her what was wrong-she said "I just walked up the stairs from doing laundry". I called my sister and told her to STOP NOW-no more laundry. She also wanted me to go get her (in the opposite direction) to go out to dinner on the other side of town. She was starting to quit driving. She relied on us for many other things but, these were the wake up calls. I was the only one to tell her she needed help (always the oldest). She thought I was so mean. I was very afraid that she would shrivel up and die. I made an appointment with a therapist who specialized in older people. I went the first time and after a breif discussion of why we were there, the therapist told me to go shopping and come back to get mom. Eventually she liked going to her anmd didn't want me to waste my time going with her if I was not in the session. She went for two years and she did become my old mom after a couple of years. We call those the dark years. Of course we help her a lot more around the house now because she is alone and getting older -79. But she is back to being independent. Good luck. Rosanne Quote
Andrea Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 Natalie, I have no advice, I wish I did. I am dreading the situation as I know mine will be the same as yours. I wish there was an answer and a way to spike our dads' food with anitdepressants b/c they are so needed Sending much love to you and PHil Quote
glo Posted June 4, 2004 Posted June 4, 2004 Hi, Nat - Like Curtis said, everybody does it differently, but I understand your concern about your dad. I do think it would be really good for him to go back to work. I think that's the biggest thing that is keeping me at least semi-sane. What line of work was he in? And did he retire? I understand he may have quit when your mother was so sick, but if he has a job he can go back to, that would probably be the fastest thing to get him functioning again. If he has to look for a new job, that will probably be more daunting for him. For one thing, in applying for jobs etc. you have to write down or check that dreaded word "widow" or "widower" and are sometimes asked about your family. I don't have to tell you how hard it is to say "my mom is dead" or "my wife is dead". I just went for a get-acquainted visit with a new doctor and it felt so strange not to put my husband down as the emergency contact. By the time the doctor came in to see me, as soon as she asked me to tell her about myself I broke out in tears. She was very good -- just told me that grief is normal and asked if I'm able to eat and to sleep and if I'm weeping all the time and cautioned me that if I'm feeling sad all the time when I pass the one year point, to please come in and ask for something to help. She was easy to talk to, and I think I'll like her as a doctor, but just that incident put me into the despair mode again. It's been a couple hours and I think I'm working back out of it. A doctor visit could be an avenue to pursue, Natalie. Does your dad have a doctor? If he does and is due for a yearly checkup, he might take suggestions from the doctor about medications or counseling. You might have to call the office and clue them in to ask him about change in marital status etc. to get him talking. And if he doesn't have a doctor, you might ask him to get established with one in order to get some baseline information in his file for comparison purposes in case of future illness. Just a thought - may not apply. Cathy expressed guilt feelings also about needing some time away from her mother -- I'm sure both of you do need some time just for yourselves -- you can't work through the grief when you're always holding back so as not to add to someone else's burden. I don't really know anything to suggest. The family counseling sounds good IF he is ready for it. I know, Nat, that you went with him to a couple grief support sessions. If my daughter said she thought we/I needed counseling, I would go, but it's not something I'm gonna do on my own. Like Curtis, sometimes I just want everybody to leave me alone. One thing I do know -- each thing I face alone gets easier after I've done it for a while. I no longer dread unlocking the door each night when I come home from work. Just try and gradually reclaim your life. If you do it in a matter of fact way, I think your dad will accept it. He may still do things that worry you, like staying up late and sleeping late, but in the end, he has to be responsible for himself and your mother would want you to help him, but she'd know you can't do it for him. Is he receptive to running errands for you and things like that? My husband loved to help our daughter out and she often called him to take her car to the shop, or change her oil, or pick her up at work if she had to work late and her car was parked far away. Funny how you can put off all kinds of chores for yourself, but not hesitate to do them for others. I think we all like to be needed. Sorry I can't be of more help. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more. Gloria Quote
natalie Posted June 4, 2004 Author Posted June 4, 2004 Thank you all for replying. I know it's a sensitive topic and I hope I didn't sound like an uncaring, selfish daugther. Becky I took your advice and asked my Dad if he would go to a counselor with me. He said "he guesses so" so I'm crossing my fingers that he doesn't change his mind. Glo and Curtis thank you so much for giving me your perspective...I do feel you two are much stronger and motivated than my Dad...but I was reading a post you wrote, Curtis, of your bracelet WWBD. I just love that. I'm thinking maybe I can make something similar for my Dad to give him that little motivation as he always admired her strength. When my mom got sick they moved up here so my Dad does not have an established job here in Sacramento. He also doesn't like to work under "others". If I ask, he gets defensive and I feel pushy...so now I don't say anything and worry...but I'm thinking if we got to the counselor we can bring that up and discuss it in a constructive manner...maybe I'm not approaching him compassionately enough. Andrea, Roseanne and Cathy, thank you for your support and for understanding. Last night my Dad said that he wasn't going to go to that family party and that he was going to take my husband and I out for dinner and a movie. I told him, "Dad, I'm so sorry, but I have plans I can't get out of" he then said, "oh..hm, that's too bad, I guess then I'll go to that party since there's nothing else to do, but it's going to be hard to go because Marin reminds me of your mother"..the party is in Berkely not Marin (they are about 45 minutes apart). So I responded, "Dad I know it's hard, but from what everyone tells me it will be easier, and the more you go the easier it will probably be, I think it would be great for you to be around family. I don't think it's healthy to avoid everyone. I don't ALWAYS have to be there, you'll be okay." He is acting like I'm abandoning him...geesh, I see him at least three times a week! It was 5 times a week for the past four months. I use to see him about six times a year and he NEVER made contact with me, it was always me and my mom with the relationship. My Dad would only call me when they were having marital problems. If it were my husband that had passed, I know that he would not be there one third as much as I have for him. I then asked him what he's been doing and he said he was going to start the wallpaper in the kitchen since now he has nothing to do during the week. I took it as a snide remark as if I'm abandoning him since I've been pulling away a bit to where I'm not dedicated every day to him and what he's doing. We got in a fight two weeks after my mom passed. Its a long story but it was after the first visit to the cemetary, had to drive back home, go to work the next day and my Dad got mad because I didn't want to go to a restaurant at 9pm at night on the way home. I sat and consoled him all day, sat by him when we went to the gravesite, had to go to my grandma's for 4 hours while they talked...seeing my mom's gravesite for the first time was so painful...I was just wanting to go home and cry about it...I didn't want to go to a darn restaurant. Eating? I didn't feel like eating. But he got all his emotions out so he felt better. I had remarked to him gently that it wasn't a good idea to have me as my mom's replacement and that although I will be there for him and support him, that I couldn't live up to being mom's replacement. I'm still his daughter, not his companion. He then kept saying that I would abandon him and leave him alone, etc and that I don't care about him and that my mom said I hate him, etc. I'm starting to see the manipulation and I'm resenting it. On mother's day I asked if I could just be alone for that day. After repeatedly saying I wanted to be alone, he finally got the drift. He then called me the night before to tell me what a hard day it was going to be for him and that I needed to remember that it's a hard day for him. I told him, "well, then it's a good day for you to go spend with your mother to get your mind off of it.". I mean, really, the one day I feel I'm allowed to grieve, he still makes it about him? Oh my gosh I have all this bottled up in me...I'm so sorry to let all this out in a long post. I'm just so frustrated and angry. My feelings are so sensitive to talk about my Dad with. I don't want to hurt his feelings or make him feel bad, but I just don't know when the caregiving ends or when I can get a break. Then I get mad at myself for being so selfish...I mean, I'm healthy, what am I complaining about? Then I cry about my mom. It's the cycle Katie was talking about in another post, I just know it so well. I hope I haven't offended anyone. I'm just venting and I just realized how angry I am. Maybe I'm angry my mom is gone and I'm passing the anger onto the situation with my Dad. Maybe I'm not a caring as I think. I'm just angry and cynical and I want to be back to the person I once was. I will never be the person I was, will I? I want to be back in that bubble where you don't think about death or losing people or feel that "what if?" fear. Thanks for letting me vent. I really appreciate it. My husband, I'm sure, appreciates it too Quote
Snowflake Posted June 4, 2004 Posted June 4, 2004 Natalie, Even if your father doesn't go with you to a counseling appointment, I suggest you go on your own. It appears (and I'm NOT a professional) that he is using your grief to manipulate you and make you feel guilty when you stand up to him. Very good on the suggestion of him spending Mother's Day with HIS mother - I can understand grieving doing a negative to one's personality for a while, but he is being selfish and not allowing you time to take care of yourself. It doesn't make you a bad daughter to know what you need - what would your MOTHER suggest?? I doubt she'd say to baby him and let him bully you around. Yes, he DID just lose a spouse, BUT that's no excuse for the bullying. Take care of you, Natalie, Becky Quote
angelb Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Natalie - I too am searching. I have only been on this board for a short time, and now its not the "cure" I need, but the healing. I guess in a way my family was fortunate because my dad did not have to suffer through out the tedious treatments of chemo and radiation, in the end it was pneumonia that got him, he was just ready to go.. And I guess my mom knew that, after many late late nights of staying up and talking with her, her fear of what he was going through and would be going through lessoned and she expressed this to himthe day he died, that she would be fine, and that it was ok to go. Although sometimes, I wish that we wernt too quick to have God answer our prayers, because it was SO quickly. I am still in shock and it has been over three weeks already. It was Just last October for my mom's 50th birthday they took a cruise to Alaska, what a great time they had, but even then he wasnt feeling right. Right now, I am writing this in Northern VA, whereas my mom is in GA, over 600 miles away. My heart breaks for her each time I get an email, a phone call, a note from her. She is alone in the house they shared together, with all of his things still in plain view, but she wants to have some time to do the things she needs to do,- rethink retirement, decide if she will come home to VA, sell the house, so many things they planned for are gone, because those plans were made together. I think the one thing she misses the most is sharing her thoughts with him, just listening. Yes, I can do that, but its not the same. I tried to put myself in her shoes and think of what it would be like if my beloved husband passed away, and I get sick to my stomach and my heart feels like it was beaten, so I cant even imagine what she actually feels like. All I can do is be there for her, even if I do nothing. While I was there when he was still in ICU - all I did was shadow her, everywhere. Its just awful when things are out of your control. I do see though that there are semi normal times. She is still able to laugh, as well as cry. I think it will be a matter of time, maybe not this year, maybe next year, things will get better, not the same, but better.. I have to believe that for everyone who has lost a spouse or anyone for that matter, in order to believe that my own mother will get through this. Angela Quote
shirleyb Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Natalie, I have read your post for a few days now and I have thought about what to say. Others have given you wise advise and I can only agree with them. One thing I have done for me that I feel has helped me and may help your father also, is I started writing letters to my husband. I poured out everything in those letters. It gave me a focus for my pain and it allowed me to grieve. I know your dad is hurting and is LOST without her. You are right in knowing that you are not your mom and you are entitled to be his daughter. It may help him to write to her and ask her for help. Maybe he will realize, like I did, that my kids are no replacement for my husband. They are still my kids. I need to be their parent. I have learned I cannot always expect them to "hold" me up all the time. I had to let them have the space to greive for their dad, but also know it is part of life, and life does go on and I will never stop being their MOM. Maybe if your father is open to it, ask him to post on the board here. Let him know there are others going through this nightmare and more than willing to lend an ear. I know for me, this is the place I come when my heart is heavy and I don't want to burden my kids with my grief. Others here have shown me the way and have also let me know I am not alone in this stuggle. I don't know if I have helped at all....but you are in my prayers that you both find your way and that sometime soon, your Dad is back to being Dad. Not someone who lives through you. Much love and warm hugs girl. Shirleyb Quote
lilyjohn Posted June 11, 2004 Posted June 11, 2004 I guess I will have to agree with the others to an extent but I will also tell you that there is really nothing that you can really do for your dad. Loosing the person who defines your life and is the center of your hopes and dreams is just not something that anyone can make easier. Time helps and knowing that someone is there who cares. Other than that each day will write it's own beginning and ending. Your dad has to know that you are there and that you care. He also has to know that he has the right to feel the way he does without guilt feelings. I suggest that you explain to him exactly how you feel about the situation. Let him know that you love him and miss your mom too. Make sure he knows that in an emergency you will always be available but let him know too that you have a life seperate from him. A life and love like he shared with your mom and you want and need to devote time to that relationship as well as to him. I believe that if he is really clinging to you it is because he feels it is a way to feel closer to your mom. The two of you were the closest to her and with her gone you are as close as he can get to her and he feels the need for that closeness. He will grieve in his own way and nothing can change that. There will be days in the future when he may feel like part of the world again but you have to remember the better part of his world is gone and will never return because of that he will never be the person he was before. There will always be a part of him missing and believe me when I say one half of a person will never be the same as the whole person was. Give him distance and give yourself a life seperate from him. Just let him know that you are there and make sure both of you know that you can't and won't be a substitute for your mom. Quote
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