glo
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I'd like to add something to my post. I posted it late last night. In reading it this morning, I realize someone could read the post as implying that the death of a parent is unimportant in relation to the death of a child or spouse. I didn't mean that at all. It's just that my experience with my father's death had not prepared me at all for what grief can be. My father was an alcoholic and I left home right after high school because it had been a rather chaotic childhood. However, my mom and I are really close and if she dies before I do, which is likely because she's about to turn 90 this September, I will be right back in this swamp of pain as are all of you who have lost parents.
Of course, common sense tells us that the closer the relationship, the deeper the pain of its loss.
I usually am not so open -- have composed many long posts here, only to delete them without posting, because mostly I'm a private person. But this board has truly become a family to most of us and I identify strongly with many of you who are on similar paths to mine.
On a brighter note, yes after six months I'm not in as much agony every day -- there are still tears every day and fears every day, but there are occasional smiles too.
I grew up in Maryland and all of my family still live there in my hometown or the surrounding areas. I have four sisters and two brothers. I couldn't be prouder of my sisters. For years now they have all been taking turns caring for my mom and her sister, who is 97 this year and only went in a nursing home two years ago. By caring for, I mean one of them went to my aunt's apartment each day to be sure she had her meds, ate at least one cooked meal, left other prepared foods for her, did her grocery shopping, paid her bills, cleaned her house, etc. They do many of these things for my mom, but because she is in better health, they don't go everyday -- they allow her to continue doing as much for herself as she is up to -- but they call everyday and they do whatever they feel she finds difficult. One sister pays her bills, another sister cleans for her weekly, one takes her to doctor appointments and they all cook and bring food whenever they feel like it.
Well, I'm really excited today because tomorrow ALL FOUR of those sisters are arriving here to stay with me until April 9. WOW -- hard to believe they all managed it at one time. The youngest and I are very close and she has been here more than any of the others. She told me she was coming and was hoping one sister would come with her, but of course she invited them all and they surprised us. One sister hasn't been here for 22 years and one has never been here.
So poor Mom will have to struggle on her own for a while. Just kidding. Wish I could say the two brothers will step in and fill the void -- not! They don't get it, because the girls are so diligent they never feel the need to do much. BUT the husbands of these girls -- I keep saying girls -- the youngest is 50 for gosh sakes -- will fill the void. One will even take her to bingo, which she loves. Thankfully he does too. And of course we'll all be on the phone to her telling her what we're up to. I wish she could have come too -- she has made the trip many times in the past, but she uses a walker now and her legs hurt her a lot of the time and her hearing is just bad enough that a group of noisy people all talking at the same time is hard on her, so she didn't really want to come.
My daughter and I went to see Mom last October and will go again this September to celebrate her 90th birthday. So we don't feel too bad that she can't be on this trip -- we'd wear her out!
And my mom's sister will be well cared for of course because she's in a nursing home. She just won't have as many visitors for a week. But we'll be on the phone to her too.
When they go home and my house is again empty and echoing, the grief will probably rush in again, and of course it won't be gone while they're here -- only pushed deeper down. But it will be SO worth it.
BTW the picture is me and my husband Carl Dean (Chuck) McCormac in September of 2002 at a wedding. Perhaps the fact that a man named DeanCarl showed up on the board to post such profound and helpful insight is a sign in itself that I should continue on this message board to get help and give it wherever I can. I think Dean Carl and Carl Dean would have liked each other.
Gloria
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Ah, Ladies --
You are all exactly right. We all react differently and yet so much the same. I lost my Dad 35 years ago and my reaction was to cry a little one day because I regretted that we were not close and I felt bad that his passing affected me so little, and I wished I were there to support my Mom -- and then I went on with my life 3,000 miles away.
Almost 20 years later (Labor Day weekend 1989) I found out what grief really is -- I lost my 21 year-old son -- my first-born child, my pride and joy -- my baby who had just grown into a man and my friend -- to a motorcycle accident. My husband, my daughter and I spent 3 days in a critical care unit, talking to him and holding his hand and trying to will him to live. He looked perfect and beautiful, only a small cut on his forehead, but his lungs were crushed -- yes, damaged lungs from hitting the windscreen on the bike, took him from me -- and he was not in a coma -- he could squeeze our hand for yes or no and I love you. But he had staples from breastbone to groin from his operations and he was hooked to a ventilator and most every piece of machinery known to man and he was able to smile when his best friends came to see him and we just knew the doctors HAD to be able to save him. But they couldn't -- his breathing worsened until they had to do a cut-down trach operation at his bedside and we sat through 3 code blue responses where they restarted his heart until finally the doctor came and told us that he was gone. By that time I wanted it to stop because I knew he had been without oxygen much too long.
Even at 14 my daughter was a rock. She was the one who could talk to him and make him respond. I watched her grow up in three days, and I was so proud of her and have been for all of the 15 years since.
I cannot begin to tell you how long it took for the grief to become bearable. I remember endless days and nights of zombieism. My husband never criticized -- merely took over most of the things I had usually done, although he was devastated too -- I went to work, came home, went to bed, got up -- all with very little emotion. I remember being at a back- to- school night for my daughter at her first year of high school and feeling so sick to my stomach and so shaky and scared inside and finding it hard to realize that all these people around me didn't know my world had stopped. I knew my daughter deserved more from me, but I didn't know how to pull out of it.
And yes, Natalie, the shower -- I think more tears than water went down my shower drain for a long, long time -- I think because it's such a private spot and you don't have to be afraid your loved ones will see you and feel sorry for you -- which often makes it worse because now you've added your pain to theirs.
And guilt and regrets -- which has been discussed here many times -- believe me, it's a part of the trauma. There was absolutely nothing I could have done to change the situation in any way. There was no way I could have been at fault -- we just got that call that every parent dreads, and he was already in surgery when we got to the hospital -- and I believe the doctors and nurses performed above and beyond the expected -- most victims of blunt force trauma to the chest die immediately and they kept him alive three days but still my brain persisted in playing and replaying in endless loops the tape of every minute from the call to his death. I think our brain is trying to rearrange it into an outcome we can accept.
Very slowly the grief and pain incorporated themselves into my life and became a part of me and somewhere along the line I began to remember his life and the good memories much more than reliving that awful time in the hospital.
I don't think I was ever consciously aware of the changes, but after a few years -- sorry, folks -- yes, I said years, I became aware that the anniversary of his death or his birthday still brought sadness and pain, but no longer unbearable pain. And it probably took 10 years before Labor Day actually passed without my thinking of it at all. I had finally come to remembering him always but now with seldom a thought of his death but only to smile about his life.
And now another round with grief. After being treated for COPD for three years my husband, Chuck, began having bad pain in his upper back and left shoulder blade. After suffering several months and being misdiagnosed, he finally had a CT scan on July 18, 2003 which showed a tumor at the upper tip of his lung which had eaten into the rib cage and the shoulder blade.
To make a long story short -- I've told some of it somewhere on this board earlier on -- an orthopedic surgeon operated and stabilized his spine and shoulder. And the operation was successful and he was doing ok in a rehab unit, although it was very hard on him.
But then the surgery site became infected and had to be opened and washed -- twice. The last time just took too much out of him. His heart rate became elevated and he caught pneumonia. He had gone in the hospital on Aug. 8, so he had spent nearly a month being moved from oncology to rehab and back again. He spent the last three days of his life (Labor Day weekend) in the same critical care unit in the same hospital where our son had died on Labor Day in 1989. It was ironic, because he would have been placed in the Medical ICU but the only empty bed was in the Surgical ICU.
This time my daughter and I spent three days with him, at the end of which time his condition had worsened and he was no longer responding to us. They removed the ventilator because he had specified that he would accept it only temporarily. He died peacefully within one minute of removing the ventilor, without ever opening his eyes. And I do have regrets over some of the things before and during the hospital time, but that is for another post.
I've gone into all this detail because I want you to know that I can tell you from experience that in spite of how awful grief is, you can bear it. You do not get over it, but it does become a part of your life, and so perhaps I have a little edge over some of you in that I KNOW I can do this. But it is without a doubt the worst thing I've ever felt. I'm 61 years old, but I'm just a scared little girl. I can keep going mainly because much of the time it doesn't seem real. It's the times when the reality that he will never be back creeps in that are so hard to get through.
And although it seems that the circumstances of dying the same weekend in the same hospital as my son must mean they are together, I have had no signs and no dreams to make me feel close to him.
And Natalie and Shellie and Katie, please not to worry about feeling changed by this and bitter and maybe more self-focused. It is all very normal. We've been through a period of intense focus on one thing -- and then, zap, without warning it's gone and we're left very disoriented. The things we did before don't seem important now. And the small things that people around us complain of are irritating. It's hard to be sympathetic about everyday stuff like bills and deadlines when we have so much more on our minds.
The compassion you all have for others shows through very well in all your posts. You will feel more like your selves again in time -- it just takes a long time -- and none of us will ever forget.
And from the perspective of the surviving parent to the child, yes
there are times when Wendy and I don't seem able to help each other. Sometimes when she's here, we both are quiet and non-communicative -- she watches something on TV and I mess with the computer, or vise versa, and we don't feel close. Other times we're able to slip back into our old routine of talking about our jobs, friends we have in common, plan a trip or go shopping. Your parents are probably not shutting you out, they just are trying hard not to burden you. I don't think there's much that can be done about that, other than to see each other often. Which I know you are already doing.
Gloria
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Oh, Curtis -- I, too, am so shocked. It was so quick -- that in itself is terribly traumatic and yet, we can only be grateful that she was able to live her life her way so close to the end. To see how loved Becky was on the board, you only have to look at the number of times your message has been viewed -- over 800 views so far from a board with not quite 1,000 members! And almost 80 people so far have posted! That wife of yours was clearly our shining star, and I'm sure she shines down on all of us now. Especially you and that adorable daughter.
Each night I say a prayer for all of us on this board, and each time the picture in my mind representing all of us is of Becky cuddling your precious daughter. That is the most eloquent picture I have ever seen.
Becky has been truly an inspiration to all and the love between the two of you was unmistakeable in all of the posts.
I am so, so very sorry for your loss.
Gloria
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Wow, Julie --
You surely have had a load of stress dropped on you. I'm sorry I don't have any real advice, but I would echo what the others have said about taking a deep breath, slow down, try to calm down, and then try to obtain information from the primary care doctor.
Family members sometimes don't act very rationally, but they're still family and it speaks very well for you that you are so concerned and willing to help.
Wishing you luck in finding more information and with your Dad's health.
Gloria
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Oh, my gosh. That is so exactly me. I go back and forth all the time, but nothing ever gets done. I can't seem to concentrate long enough to ever finish a task. It's pathetic. Funny, but pathetic!
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Leslie -- I am so very sorry for your loss. Hugs and prayers going out to you.
Gloria
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So happy to hear the fluid draining helped and you are feeling much better. What a scary day!
Keep on keeping on!
Best wishes.
Gloria
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I totally agree with you, Fay.
What's happening with you is here and now and your very life may be at stake. It is certainly not right that you should have to hire attorneys and stress over incorrect or incomplete information/procedures/etc. with your treatment. You should be able to expend your energy on things that make your recovery go easier, while feeling confident that your doctors are doing everything possible and considering all avenues available. Unfortunately, that is often not the case in today's health care system.
I haven't decided to just forget the mistakes and go on. I just haven't been able to deal with it yet.
Gloria
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This is a very interesting topic. I have thought about pursuing some complaint, if not suing, but concluded that it would put both me and my daughter through the wringer emotionally; would not, of course, bring my husband back to life; and although money is something and could possibly improve my lifestyle, it's far from a given that I would actually win a settlement.
I feel my husband would have lived longer had his back pain not been misdiagnosed (without x-rays and scans) and six weeks not been wasted on physical therapy he didn't need. Also, he died of pneumonia and staph infection he contracted in the hospital after surgery to stabilize his spine and rib cage, and I believe if the surgical site had been watched more carefully this might not have occurred. BUT none of this changes the situation I am in now. The world is so full of "if onlys". I think he did not regret having the surgery, and given the same circumstances I would agree to it again. It was his only hope.
What we really need is better early detection methods and for doctors to routinely order the tests. Yes, I do think many doctors look at someone who has smoked for a long time as "doomed" and undertreat them. When even smokers are not tested, it's a given that non-smokers will not be, and so their chances of early detection are even smaller.
I'm changing my doctor and medical group, but keeping the same insurance carrier (because you can only change once a year). I do intend to at least send a letter to Blue Shield stating what I think was poor practice from the doctor and medical group I had at the time.
And this brings me to the hot topic of the board -- advocacy -- yes, it is needed. No, I'm not strong enough right now to tackle it. I do appreciate Katie and Rick and all they are doing, and plan to donate as often as I can. And I so appreciate this board, where all of us can share thoughts and feeling and support each other.
Gloria
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How about
LUNG CANCER IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY DISEASE -- You don't have to smoke to get it.
LUNG CANCER IS A THIEF -- It stole my (husband/father/mother/brother, etc.)
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Oh, that will so work for me! I have a whole freezer full of things I haven't finished.
Becky (Snowflake), I love your posts. You have the most down to earth and yet positive attitude. You can always make me smile.
Gloria
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Like SandyS, I too am posting with tears running down my face. Your post was so eloquent.
I am so glad you were able to hold him and comfort him in his last hours and minutes.
All of us here who have lost a loved one to this awful disease, share in your pain. Please keep posting here, so that we may try and help you.
So, so, sorry for your loss.
Gloria
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Hi, Dean -
Sorry to hear you're feeling down. I agree with Don that if you could take a better pain med it might make a lot of difference. I know that before Chuck went in the hospital it was so important to him to be able to drive. Like Gay, I don't drive, for various reasons. Luckily, my daughter lives nearby and we have several neighbors who are longtime friends, and so we could get to the doctor, pharmacy, grocery store, etc., but he would still rather take less medicine and be able to drive himself.
You might check with the doctor. I think some of the patches might still allow you to function, but with less pain. Can't hurt to ask. I believe my brother-in-law who has had multiple back surgeries is on the Duragesic (Fentanyl) patches and is still able to drive.
You have had tremendous strength of will to carry you this far and stay so upbeat and helpful to others, and I'm sure with a little sunshine, you'll be back on track again.
Meanwhile, please keep posting and let us try to be as helpful to you as you are to others.
Gloria
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OMG -- at first I was doing fine, then there started being more of them and they got bigger! Finally got them all gone and quick closed the game. Must not go there again. I hate those little devils.
Gloria
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We need to find you one of those big plastic bubbles -- like the "boy in a bubble" for compromised immune systems -- a really BIG bubble that you can fit in scooter and all. Hmm, have to be an awfully tough bubble so the wheels don't pop it as it rolls on the sidewalk --and if the scooter gives off any heat ... ooops. Oh, darn, back to the drawing board. Sure don't want poor Gay walking behind, holding a golf umbrella over you.
Seriously, though, I do sympathize. Can't imagine why they don't make those scooters weatherproof. Hope the weather forecast is wrong and you get sunshine soon.
Gloria
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wow. My speakers were up kind of loud and that gave me quite a start -- really cute -- nice way to get your blood pumping.
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Oh, they are both beautiful children. Great pictures!
Gloria
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Varrooom!!!
in HOPE
Woo Hoo -
So happy for you Dean. It is above 70 degrees today in Sacramento. Just start on up this way -- your excitement will probably give you enough energy to get here! Bet Natalie would join me in taking you out to dinner.
Oh, wait -- doesn't look like there's room for Gay on there, and we sure don't want to leave her out. Well, I'm sure you'll find many good places to go on that scooter.
Sure glad you posted the picture.
I'm smiling now. 
Gloria
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Oh, Norme -
My heart goes out to you. Even though we believe they are watching over us and waiting for us, the here and now is mighty difficult.
Yours and Buddy's love has always shined bright as light here on this message board and I know it will continue. Please stay with us and let us try and help you, as you have always helped everyone on the board. They didn't even have to ask. You are an incredibly caring and wise woman and we all love you.
I, too, thought of the song Snowflake posted. It seems to fit you and Buddy perfectly.
Gloria
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Hi, Natalie's Dad -
I'm so very sorry you have to go through this. I know you aren't going through it alone because I've read posts and corresponded with your wonderful daughter Natalie. Nevertheless, after so many years of being a couple, life is suddenly very strange and the whole world looks different, and you never knew it could hurt so much.
I was married for 40 years to my husband Chuck, who died Sept. 1 at age 65 from this awful disease. The house is now so empty. I wish I had some words that would make it easier for you, but there are none. We each grieve in our own ways and our own time. There are many "firsts" to get through. The first time I had to let myself into a dark house after work because he's not there -- and yes, I do look for him, and sometimes think I hear him in another room. The first birthday, anniversary, Christmas, etc.
All I can tell you is to just keep getting up each day and doing as much as you can and cut yourself some slack and give yourself some time to grieve. The world won't fall apart if you just vegetate some days. In fact, I often wish the world would stop -- but it goes right on.
It has only been five months since my husband's death, but in some ways the grieving is slowly getting a little better. There are bad days -- but now sometimes there are good days, too. We will all get through this, because we have no other choice. The only way to get to a better place is just to take one step at a time down this lonely road we never wanted to walk. We will never get over it, but it does get incorporated into our lives and a little less painful.
Like you, I have an only child -- a daughter close to Natalie's age -- and I know what a blessing that is. Like Natalie was with her mother, my daughter was with her father every moment she could be after his diagnosis. We can be proud of raising such caring young women.
If ever you wonder if what you are feeling is "normal" or friends try to tell you to "get over it", just have Natalie print out some of the posts from the grieving section of this forum. You'll realize you are not alone. Even better, have Natalie log on for you and you can scroll through and read the messages yourself. You may find out the computer isn't delicate or intimidating after all. But watch out -- it IS addicting.
Wishing you more peace and less pain each day.
Gloria
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Totally agree with you Betplace. The most fun thing about this second site is to watch the face of someone who has been playing the game on the other site, when they hit this one and it keeps bouncing! Then you just go back to the other one and play on. Amazing how people think up this stuff and then have the knowledge to program it.
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I scored 5,952 today; my co-worker scored over eleven thousand!
Scroll down ...
Try this link:
http://www.korenwolf.net/pingu/rocket-up-the-arse.htmls
Gloria
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http://www.korenwolf.net/pingu/rocket-up-the-arse.html
Souped up version of the same game.
And yes, he does eventually stop.
The most fun is to challenge a co-worker (spouse - whoever) who is playing with the other link and not tell them about this link.
They probably won't notice that you've gone to another site and will wonder how you hit it so far. lol
Have fun.
Gloria
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Very good -- and I think just the way we should talk to God. I'm sorry to hear about your breakup with your boyfriend. Hugs to you. Sometimes life just really sucks.
Remember in the story it was good that she didn't get the dress that was too pale, because a more perfect one popped up on sale.
Maybe this boyfriend was the "too pale" one and God has a special one who will truly deserve you waiting for you to find him "on clearance" when you are ready.
(((Hugs, Laurie))))
Gloria
I'm smiling now. 
Am I The Only One Who Didn't Stay Till The End?
in GRIEF
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KC -
You were there to the end -- to the end of his consciousness -- to the end of the time he wanted you there. You honored his wishes. You have nothing to berate yourself for.
Those times are so traumatic that nobody thinks much at all, but just reacts. Only afterward when we have too much time to think and analyze, do we question our actions.
Try and make peace with yourself over that. Your dad did it his way, and that was his right.
Gloria