klooty Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Hello everyone... I have become very intrigued by this site... http://www.rationaltherapeutics.com/ Has anyone done this??? Or know of anyone who has sent away something to these people and had it come back with incredible news or results??? Also, I'm looking into whether anyone knows that if asked, will a Canadian Insurance Provider pay the cost for this too be done and tested???? Cause it says its like $2500 to get the thing tested.... Will our Canadian Health Care provider pay for this if we want to get it done??? Thank you for any help what so ever... God Bless you ALL... GOOD NIGHT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhutch1366 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Adam, From what I understand, the mets, esp brain and bone, provide a challenge to chemo because you need to get the drug to the site, and there are barriers. Also, sometimes the profile changes a bit when the cancer mets. Most cancer treatments are based on what is found in the laboratory in assays just like this, which is why they classify the cancers as sclc, nsclc, adeno, squamous, etc. The pathologist types the tumor, and from research and literature, you have a generally good profile of what is likely to work on that kind of tumor. This guy is sound science, but nothing earthshakingly new. I guess if you have a type of tumor or cancer that is extraordinarily atypical and non responsive to any traditional or current clinical trial meds, you might want to have a go at this. Otherwise, I think he's got a nice job to make money and help people who fall outside the bell curve. Bless you and your dad, MaryAnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I think Hebbie explained it best in her post(link). I have seen and heard of others getting the same type of results. As far as price goes, he does have a financial assistance program available for those individuals that are unable to afford his testing(2,500). http://www.buy2k.net/lungcancersurvivor ... php?t=4428 Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhutch1366 Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Yes, Hebbie explained it very well indeed. Thanks for remembering that post. MaryAnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresag Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I went to their website and wrote to them, asking if their results have ever been published. If they write back, I'll let all of you know. $2500 seems a bit steep to me, and I wonder why insurers don't cover it. Sometimes this is a red flag - unproven or marginally useful methods aren't FDA approved and therefore not reimbursed. And sometimes it just means it's an innovative approach & no one has spent the daunting time, effort and major headaches to submit for an FDA approval. As one who has been there, I don't blame them a bit! Hoping to hear something good from them.... The website says their studies are good for more than just ruling out ineffective drugs; they claim to be able to identify the ones that will work best for an individual tumor. For my money, ruling out the ineffective alone is a good start, though. Mary Ann, there are differences in tumors that extend beyond their classification as adeno, squamous, large cell or what have you. It is these more subtle differences that rational therapetuics claims to sort out. Exactly why some tumors are chemo resistant and others are not is beyond my scope of knowledge (WAY beyond!), but they are trying to sort out which drugs a given tumor is sensitive to or resistant to. Be well, friends - Teresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I am not sure why U.S. insurance companies stopped paying for chemosensitivity testing. I was told by one onc that they used to routinely do it, but now it is not covered. They might pay for it in canada. http://www.communigate.co.uk/worcs/trac ... age4.phtml The problem that critics say is that what happens (in vitro) in a test tube is a lot different than what happens (in vivo) in a live person. And as Teresa pointed out if no one is willing to pay the research money, then insurance will say it is still experimental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Cancer chemotherapy chemosensitivity testing is useful in evaluating the appropriate adjuvant cancer chemotherapy for stages III/IV gastric cancers without peritoneal dissemination. Kubota T, Egawa T, Otani Y, Furukawa T, Saikawa Y, Yoshida M, Watanabe M, Kumai K, Kitajima M. Department of Surgery, School of Medicine, Keio University, 35 Shinanomachi, Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo 160-8582, Japan. tkubota@sc.itc.keio.ac.jp BACKGROUND: Because of the low chemosensitivity of gastric cancer to conventional antitumor agents, the role of adjuvant chemotherapy for patients with advanced gastric cancer is controversial. We have previously proposed the necessity to evaluate the appropriateness of particular adjuvant cancer chemotherapies in individual advanced gastric cancer patients using chemosensitivity testing. In the present study, we compared the chemosensitivity and clinical outcomes of patients with Stages III and IV gastric cancer. PATIENTS AND METHODS: A total of 282 patients with advanced gastric cancer were analyzed retrospectively in terms of chemosensitivity as detected by the 3-(4,5-dimethylthiazol-2-yl)-2,5-diphenyl tetrazolium bromide (MTT) assay and survival outcome after surgery. Patients were split into groups according to Stage III or IV gastric cancer, then categorized into those that received surgery without chemotherapy (surgery-alone), and those that received adjuvant chemotherapy, for which all the evaluable cases were further divided into sensitive and resistant cases as determined by MTT assay. RESULTS: For Stage III gastric cancer patients, the sensitive group had a more favorable survival outcome than the other two groups. For Stage IV gastric cancer patients, the sensitive groups, had a more favorable survival outcome than the other two groups, but only in the absence of peritoneal dissemination. CONCLUSION: Chemosensitivity testing, based on the MTT assay, was useful in evaluating the appropriate cancer chemotherapy for patients with Stages III/IV gastric cancer without peritoneal dissemination. ----------------------------------------- In another study for ovarian cancer 65% of the sensitive group responded to chemo vs. 18% and it was "statisically signifigant" (p < 0.0005) So it seems chemosensitivity testing has had some positive research results for other cancers at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Extreme Drug Resistance To Learn More About This Topic: Chat with Us | Email Us One of the innovative ways Cancer Treatment Centers of America tailors a treatment plan for each individual is by using the Extreme Drug Resistance (EDR) Assay (or Chemosensitivity). The EDR is a highly accurate test for solid tumors, which determines the probability of a tumor’s resistance to specific chemotherapeutic drugs. If the tumor cells grow in the presence of extreme exposure to a drug, this indicates the presence of significant drug resistance. Therefore, if the tumor is resistant to a drug in this assay, then the tumor growing in a patient’s body will almost certainly be resistant to that drug. With this information, the CTCA physicians can avoid unnecessary toxicity, consider other treatment protocols, and minimize costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Hi, I would caution against expecting "incredible results" as you mentioned. This is merely a diagnostic test, not a treatment. Having said that, I think it makes so much sense to try it. There's no downside except the financial cost. My mom tried it and it indicated she'd be most sensitive to two particular combinations. She's on her second cycle of cisplatin+gemzar now. While it's too early to know how well it is working, based on an Xray after the first cycle the oncologist said it's looking "a bit better". Mom's side effects of cough and short breath (probably caused by pleural effusion) have decreased noticeably. Importantly, the assay indicated what Mom would probably NOT be sensitive to. One of the indicated drugs was carboplatin. This is a very important point, because there's a good chance that carboplatin+gemzar would've normally been prescribed as the first line treatment. Personally, I feel that this is the big value of using an assay to try to predict which drugs to use. Hang in there and Best of luck. DP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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