norme Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Last Tuesday the new onc drew blood to test Markers? I know I have read on here about someone talking about this subject. the only thing I know is that somehow it tells whether there is still cancer in the body? Does it tell the level of cancer? Whoever knows what about this subject, please give some info...thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candy Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 The way I understand it is that the lower the "markers" the better it is. When Hugh was doing chemo the first time his markers were in the 60's after about 4 rounds of chemo and they considered that good. (I believe, and I could be wrong, that someone without cancer would be in the twenties.) When Hugh had just finished up with his radiation for his brain mets the doctor called us after some routine bloodwork and told us we had to go for scans because his markers were up from the previous bloodwork. Sure enough, the scans showed that his cancer had spread to the right lung and he began treatment. I would be suprised if your husband's markers hadn't been checked before. Maybe they never bothered to tell you before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norme Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 The medical reports don't show anything referring to markers? The new onc looked at the med reports and thats when he asks us. Will be interested to see what they are. am hoping for a low number then. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmc Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Hello Norme; My doc. plots a CEA reading, he tells me the number should be less than 5 ng /ml , thats for smokers of which I am not and would ideally like it at a 2.5. However, other factors such as respiratory infections can drive it up. So he looks also for trends. Mine was elevated at a 13 last winter but has been trending downward which is good. It's just another tool he uses to watch for recurrence. If the number starts to trend upward to say a 60 like Candy was saying then it's time to look very close. Hopes this helps. http://cis.nci.nih.gov/fact/5_18.htm http://www.vh.org/adult/patient/cancerc ... mormarker/ God bless and be well Bobmc- NSCLC-stageIIB- left pneumonectomy- 5/2/01 " absolutely insist on enjoying life today!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norme Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Thanks for making me smarter in order to fight. I sure love all the knowledge one gets from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karen335 Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Norme and Bob, My CEA in March was at 13 and now I am at <.5. Does that mean that the cancer is gone? In fact the highest the CEA has been since diagnosis in March has been 13. A 60 on a CEA seems really high, sounds like a lot of cancer in the body. I am not sure. My onc still wants to give me chemo, Taxol/Carbo (This is the 4th of a three week cycle.)She then wants to put me on Taxotere, (do I need a 2nd opinion for NED?) My Pulmonary doctor says he can't find the tumor. This was based on the Bronc he did two weeks ago. My doctors are baffled and the tumor was 17cm. Did CT on Thursday, get results Monday. Onc wants to do PET, this would be second one in 4 months. My God has performed a miracle and I give him the glory. He is good. Warm Regards, Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berisa Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 What the oncologist told that tumor marker is no use for SCLC patients. It is weird, when I refer to your link, they said ADH (tumor marker) is for SCLC patients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimblanchard Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I am really confused now. Is this something I should be asking our oncologist about? Is it for SCLC or also for NSCLC?? This has never even been discussed with us. ????????????????? Peg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmc Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Ouch, didn't mean to confuse ya Peg. However remember, with me there looking for disease as I'm NED, Bill, because he is a later stage already has the disease. But, from what I'm reading, markers can also have value in telling if treatment is working??? here's another link I found on it, that may help you, but has now confused me??? http://egtm.web.med.uni-muenchen.de/detail/6.htm I just learned that the CEA reading is primary for Adenocarcinoma's and Large cell cancer, and I had squamous type , seems I have a couple of questions also. I think maybe we all should print this data out and ask our onc. 's and see if we can get some clarity. God bless and be well Bobmc- NSCLC- stageIIB-left pneumonectomy- 5/2/01 " absolutely insist on enjoying life today!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norme Posted October 27, 2003 Author Share Posted October 27, 2003 Buddy goes to the chemo onc tomorrow and he is the one who is doing the markers. Will try and ask more about it. From what I am reading of the web sights that Bob sent us to, (it is very confusing) it is for nsclc and sclc. For Buddy who has adenocarcinoma it is just to see if he has any more cancer in him. However, beings this was never done before they really have nothing to refer back to. I will let you all know after the visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norme Posted October 28, 2003 Author Share Posted October 28, 2003 Just got back from the chemo onc and the Marker roport showed Buddy's CA125 to be 69.12 which is real high. The average for a marker is 0 to 35. There still is cancer in his body evidently. Bob- from what I have read since you gave me those sights is that for adenocarcinona it is a Ca125 reading, for Squamous cell it is a SCC reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimblanchard Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Thanks for all the information regarding markers. My onc had told me there were none for LC so when I go back the 12th I am going to question further. I also wonder how many of you have no idea what type their caner is. first time mine was squamous cell but this time they didn't want to take a chance on remaining lung collapsing so did not do a biopsy. Seems they would need to know if in the future they recommend chemo, but maybe that isn't in their plans. The info on this board is great but sometimes I can't figure out what the abbreviations stand for. BLT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karen335 Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Hi Norme, If you look at the website that Bob gave us, CA125 is for Ovarian Cancer, at least that is what the chart says. How can your Onc use that test for your hubby. I am really confused now. Please go back and look at the website that Bob gave to us, then let us know. Yor hubby has the NSCLC, and the CEA Markers are used for that. If I am wrong please correct me and maybe I am reading the chart wrong. Thanks, this is really confusing. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimblanchard Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Well to cloud the issue even more we asked about the markers today at the oncologists and were told they were used for colon cancer not lung cancer!!! Peg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimblanchard Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I wasn't finished with my post - SORRY - just frustrated. I don't want to miss anything I should know about. Peg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norme Posted October 29, 2003 Author Share Posted October 29, 2003 Either someone on here gave me another sight or I went thru Google and found the following. I do not have the web sight. What is shown on the bottom of this info I copied on the 27th does not take me to the web page. Markers are for advanced lung cancer. I am just going to type a little of this and it goes as follows: TUMOUR MARKERS: Many different tumour associated antigens have been described and investigated. The most commonly used markers circulating in the blood are neuron specific enolase (NSE), carcinoembryonic antigen (CEA), cytokeratin 19 fragments (CYFRA 21-1m squamous cell carcinoma antigen (SCC, cancer antigen CA 125 (CA 125) and tissue polypeptide antigen (TPA). NSE is a glycolytic neurospicific isoenzyme of enolase. It consists of two almost identical polypeptide chains, each with a molecular weight of 39kD. It is produced in central and peripheral neurons and malignant tumours of neuroectodermal origin (e.g. SCLC, neuroblastomas, intestinal carcinoid). Furthermore, as NSE is also found in erythrocytes, plasma cells and platelets it may be released into serum if separation from red cells does not occur within 60 minutes of venepuncture. CEA is a glycoprotein of molecular weight of - 180 kD. It is one of the carcinofetal antigens produced during embryonal and fetal development. CEA was one of the first tumour markers to be described, and has relatively high sensitivity for many advanced adenocarcinomas (primarily colon, but also breast, stomach and lung cancer). Sensitivity of CEA measurement is greatest, and serum CEA concentrations are highest, in adenocarcinoma and large cell lung cancer. CA-125 (MW -200kD) is the second hybridom-defined tumour marker. It is a differentiation antigen that arises in fetal tissue from coelomic epithelial derivatives. Serum measurements are mainly used in serious ovanian carcinomas but are sometimes used in breast and lung cancer. SCC is a 48 kD protein with strong homology to the serpin family of protease inhibitors. Serum measurements of SCC have been used in squamous cell carcinomas of the cervix, oesophagus, head, neck and lung. One of the most important applications of SCC measurements in lung cancer is as an aid to histological diagnosis. CYFRA 21.1 is a relatively new tumour marker test which uses two specific monoclonal antibodies against a cytokeratin 19 fragment. Histopathological studies demonstrate that cytokeratin 19 is abundant in carcinomas of the lung. CYFRA 21-1 is espically suitable for NSCLC as it is the most sensitive tumour marker in these histologies including squamous tumours. Since CYFRA 21.1 determines only fragments of cytokeratin 19, the test shows a higher specificity that TPA, which determines a mixture of cytokeratins 8, 18 and 19. Well, I ended up typing almost all of it. Don't know what it is actually saying other then they tested Buddy's CEA and CA 125. It was the CA 125 that showed the 69.12 which is high....His CEA was 3.2 which is good? Hope this settles much of the confusion. Now you know what I do and I don't really know what it says.......I never got that far in school..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhutch1366 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Just for reference... When I first asked what kind of NSCLC I had, my surgeon told me it didn't matter, the treatment would be the same for all three. Now I had a pancoast tumor, and I do not know what makes a tumor grow that way if it is the same cell types as LC -- nonPancoast. He never mentioned markers, nor did my oncologist. To my knowledge, they never did markers. I wouldn't get all flipped out about numbers, as far as I know the only solid marker is for prostate -- prostate specific antigen. There may be others for other types of cancers, but just from the different takes on markers showing up on this board, I would recommend being conservative in assigning them end-all importance. Maybe I am missing something. Regards, MaryAnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norme Posted October 29, 2003 Author Share Posted October 29, 2003 I agree with MaryAnn. I think the only reason for the markers for Buddy is because of all the confusion on his scans and Pet reports and this new onc wanted to see what his body was showing as far as any more cancer inside. Of course that was before the colon thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EileenM Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Hi Interesting posts about markers. The oncology surgeon only recommended follow-up catscans & said there was no need for the CEA tests. The oncologist I went to see for a second opinion recommended the follow-up catscans with the surgeon and also to have CEA bloodtests every 3 months. The follow-up catscans and CEA bloodtests begin next month. The oncologist (don't have to go back to see him) said I could have my Primary Care Doctor do the CEA blood tests, but now I'm beginning to think maybe I would rather have the Oncology dr's office draw the blood. I don't know if there is a big difference in labs with their results, but I think mentally I'd feel better about it being done through the Oncologist's office which is in the northern part of N.J. and the Primary Care Doctor is in Central N.J. so different labs would be involved. It is strange how the oncology surgeon thinks only Catscans are needed and the oncologist thinks CEA tests and Catscans are needed. Kinda scares ya when they don't agree! EileenM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmc Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 Yea Eileen, I know what you mean' Makes me real glad I'm here and an advocate for my own care. I think it's just so important!! Anyway, because there's such an interest in this topic. I sent in a question from the LCSC group to the upcoming Mark Krist Q& A chat that will be aired next Wed afternoon. PLWC is hosting it. I asked if he would speak to it cause theres 675 members here that want to know???? Lets see, what happens! Hey Eileen, another Jersey girl, cool, we gotta get a face to face group going pretty soon. There's getting to be alot of us. I was thinking about giving the Cancer Institute of NJ a call. There in New Brunswick, right, I figure pretty much in the center of the state. What do ya think, are ya up for a group(((( HUG)))). God bless and be well Bobmc- NSCLC- stageIIB- left pneumonectomy- 5/2/01 " absolutely insist on enjoying life today!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraL Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 New Brunswick it should be, Bob! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EileenM Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Hi Bob New Brunswick sounds great! EileenM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niececola Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Hello, Not sure if you all saw this. This was the answer Dr. Kris gave earlier this week: marie: Can you talk to us about carcinoembryonic antigen (CEA) and its potential as a prognostic indicator of recurring lung cancer? Dr. Kris: CEA is NOT an accepted prognostic indicator for lung cancer. So, I am still confused and not sure what it all means. My mom's onc told us yesterday her CEA level was 29. Have a good weekend, Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niececola Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Hello, Not sure if you all saw this. This was the answer Dr. Kris gave earlier this week: marie: Can you talk to us about carcinoembryonic antigen (CEA) and its potential as a prognostic indicator of recurring lung cancer? Dr. Kris: CEA is NOT an accepted prognostic indicator for lung cancer. So, I am still confused and not sure what it all means. My mom's onc told us yesterday her CEA level was 29. Have a good weekend, Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowflake Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Hmmm....these POSTS resemble a carousel! MY oncologist said that are really no markers for lung cancer such as there are for prostate and breast cancer...he orders a CEA prior to every appointment for a "general cancer count". Mine has been between 0.6 and 1, "normal" for people without cancer as everyone has some form of cancer cells floating around in the blood stream. More confusion, I'm sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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