What to do?

[SharKats]

I am sorry if this has been asked and answered on this Forum but I am very upset and worried and I am hoping someone can give me some advice.

I have been battling sclc since last Jan (well, Dec really) and to date, things have been fine with my husband for the most part. A few weeks ago he began saying hateful, hurtful things that were totally uncalled for. He knows how to push my trigger points and I was responding in kind.

Now he isn't going to work, he sleeps in his recliner, sits in it all day and stares at TV. He doesn't eat, change clothes, talk, nothing. I am so worried about him losing his job because then we'd lose the house. I'd hate to finish up whatever time God is giving me living under a bridge.

He has always kept his deep feelings to himself - a product of his generation and his father. (he's sixty-eight). I told him I felt he was suffering from depression and he should see a doctor and talk about getting an anti-depressant and possibly a anti-anxiety to help him through this time and to pull himself out of this. I have reached out to his 2 adult daughters who live out of state and I hope he's not too terribly angry when/ if they bring up this subject. He has to respond to someone and he's certainly not responding to me. He never lets his daughters think anything is wrong as far as his feelings, emotions. He thinks Dads' do not do that type thing. I also told his sister in the hopes she can get him to open up. This, added on to the cancer tx's and the upcoming WBR is going to put me over the brink if something doesn't change. He has medical insurance so no excuse for not attempting to seek help.

Has any one else experienced this with their spouse?

[Remembering Dave]

crap, Sharlene, THIS IS BAD. I would expect and understand this type of behavior out of the cancer patient, but him? the man whom you are dependent?

What did he say when you told him he was depressed? did he respond at all?

Is HE 68, or is his father 68? If your husband is 68, can he at least retire so you can get those benefits and not lose your house?

You are doing the right thing, if only for practical purposes, but he has got to pull himself out of his depression and be there for you. Plus, if he loses you, you will want to know I am sure that he will pull himself together and be OK, wouldn't you?

God bless you my dear soul and keep us posted,

Karen

[Remembering Dave]

I want to clarify myself a little.

True clincial depression is a medical problem - a disease - and the person suffering from it can't help having it any more than a cancer patient can help having cancer.

But they can, however, get treatment for it, just like a cancer patient can get treatment for the cancer. and they are responsible for doing that. if they're not able to, family should do their best to get them help.

but no one should ever blame a depression patient for having depression. they did nothing to bring it on any more than the cancer patient did.

I speak personally. I suffer from a condition called dysthymia (sp?) which is a "low level" of depression a person walks around with their entire life, starting in young adolesence/childhood. It can be started by bad experiences like abuse. and not treating it, and most of it is not treated, later in life brings on clinical depression, especially when there is a tramatic life event to trigger it. The trauma Dave is going through right now is making me struggle with my own medical demons. I feel for Sharlene's husband in that I think he needs to get some medical help. NOW.

Just want to clear that up. I don't think Sharlene's husband is having a pity party. I think he's sick and he needs help.

Karen

[cindi o'h]

Hey Shar.

I went through something very similar with my family members....siblings. They were really mean to me to. Out of the blue...for no reason at all. They don't get it.

In order to best take care of myself, I had to just close the chapter on this. MY life MY survival is what is important now. I need to be uplifted, not dragged down by someone's foolishness.

Fortunately, I could choose not return for abuse. Easy enough....? No phone calls. No cards. No nothing. They don't call me and I don't call them. Cancer is a strange illness and does hurtful things to those involved sometimes.

I just decided that I can't fix them. I can only take care of myself the best that I can..for me it is life and death. For them, it is a luxury to be ugly.

I think that there was resentment on their part about how well I faced death. About how good my attitude was. I think that they resented it for some reason and thought they had to take me down a knotch. Which they did for awhile. Like your man, they said some very hurtful and off the wall things to me. Their perceptions. Certainly not reality.

For me, I got some good advice from a counselor who deals with people who are facing life and death. He said at this time that I need to be selfish for once in my life. And that is now my goal. It is all about me. It must be this way for me to survive. He spoke with wisdom and experience. I had to cut the family loose. They are in God's hands as much as I am. I can't take care of them and their needs and me and mine. Just mine.

Don't know why this happens. But, it does....sometimes to some people. So sorry dear. I know how confusing, painful and frightening this is for you. I can only wish you wisdom in deciding what you will do to best serve yourself.

Love, Cindi o'h

[Remembering Dave]

Cindi,

it's really hard when it's your spouse, though. Sharlene needs her husband.

And a big part of his problem could be how much he feels like he needs her.

But it sounds so much like severe clinical depression to me. Not just how he's treating her, but how he's treating himself. I doubt your family was harming themself, and he is doing himself harm by not going to work, sittingin the chair all day, etc.

He needs a good shrink and some drugs.

Karen

[Justakid]

Wow-

Sounds like clinical depression to me too. Been there done that slipping back into it now. Why get out of bed in the morning? Why brush your teeth, why not yell and take everyone's head off, etc..............

Sharkats, you do need your husband now though....I feel it's a little different when it's the patient then the caregiver. If the caregiver and patient and both falling apart it's bad cause there is no one to take care of things.

Hang in there, seek medical advise!

[SharKats]

I want to thank all of you, with all my heart, who responded - the sharing of your experiences, your suggestions and most of all your comforting words got me through yesterday. I wanted to see how the afternoon and evening proceeded before I posted again.

Hal told the big boss he would be in yesterday afternoon. It took 2 hours for him to take a shower, me asking when he was going and if he wasn't to please call his boss. I tried to call his boss and he went ballistic. So I'm calling his boss Monday. I(f he gets fired, no one is going to hire a 68 year old man and then God knows what will happen). Anyway, yesterday was just another non-responsive, sleep in the recliner all afternoon and evening. I did get him to go to Taco Bell last night because I figured he'd eat that. He's in a stupor - a daze, obviously unable to cope with anything at this time.

And to add cherries on the top, my niece in Miami (has always been a drug or alcohol abuser) got drunk and called the Houston police to our house. Not once but twice. Got a nice, loud pep talk from the first cop who obviously couldn't see anything wrong. Then a 2nd cop came about 20 min's later. They said they were closing out my niece's complaint. Oh me...................

I called his sister Ruth and she spoke to him and I could hear him basically say his mind wasn't coping right now. You can't imagine what an admission that was from him. She suggested I call a crisis center and get some guidance as to how to proceed. She also suggested him talking to a minister but we don't have a church and I can't see him talking about this with a total stranger and I don't think even if I found one that they make house-calls any more.

Karen I am so sorry about what you had to go through with your family - to me, it's just beyond my ability to understand those reactions to someone battling a life-threatening disease. I salute you for your courage and strength in moving on and ridding yourself of all the hurt and negativity. I think most of our strength goes into our attempts to understand, receive, sort out, and proceed with our treatment plans and the often abrupt changes that occur with them. For myself, to dig deeper into my shallow well of strength to help with something I don't know how to help is going to deplete any reserves I may have stored up.

So, I'm hoping that one of his 2 of his daughters will be able to accomplish something about getting help. Although I guess Dads aren't suppose to experience weakness in any respect - especially mentally, emotionally.

So again, my deepest appreciation for your support and concern. No one else can truly understand unless you've been there. I know if I weren't going through this I certainly wouldn't. I probably would think I did - but not really.

Love andGod bless all of you!

[Snowflake]

Sharlene,

You need to give your husband an ultimatum and stick to it. He needs to get help, or he needs to get out. The words I would use are "I need you right now to give me strength, I don't need you to pull from me what little bit I have left". He needs a wake-up call and he needs to get help.

You CAN call a crisis center, you can call a church - and yes, they do still make housecalls. You may want to call a crisis center for some input on the next steps for his mental health. He really needs help, he's in too deep to see it - it appears he's hit rock bottom and has started to dig.

Bottom line is that he IS sick, but he needs to work on fixing it. He's in denial and it's only going to get worse. Telling him where you stand would be a good thing - that you support him if he gets help, but if he's not going to get help, he's on his own. No work = no money. No money = no house. Not good prospects. (Of course, no house means no recliner...)

Depression IS a disease, an illness, but there is absolutely no reason for you to accept him being "sick" and not trying to get well.

Good luck,

Becky

[kimblanchard]

Hi, just another perspective. It does indeed sound like depression and plain ole stubbornness, too. But - with a personality change, is it possible he has had some sort of stroke or nervous breakdown? I think he needs a checkup with his doc asap, the doc could help with any of those things. Good luck to you. Margaret

[daggiesmom]

It sounds like depression to me. Try as best you can to get him to go to a doctor, maybe his daughter can convince him. Also a total medical check up would be good for him. I'm so sorry for your problem.

Prayers for you ((()))

Joanie

[Remembering Dave]

Hey, Sharlene, that was Cindi with the family problems. My immediate family has never abandoned me. well, my mom and dad haven't.

anyway.

I agree with Margaret, why didn't I think of that? even if he didn't have a stroke or some physical problem causing this, his own family doctor is THE best place to start. make an appt. and drag him there.

and if he won't to, then I'd call the local mental health crisis center. My mother worked for years at the county mental health center, it served several counties, and they had a 24 hour 7 day a week crisis center. and it worked.

keep us posted. and can you just get him to retire, in the meantime? that way, you too can spend more time together, hopefully take care of each other?

Love and God Bless,

Karen

[mhutch1366]

Sharlene,

Sometimes the best thing you can do for your best friend is give them a good swift kick in the pants. Especially if they think they are completely helpless in a situation.

I agree with Becky. He needs to know you need him and you need him NOW. It will take his mind off his grief for a moment, hopefully, and make him realize there IS something he can DO about all this -- be there for you, take care of you. If he were with it he'd realize you were worried sick with his behavior, and that he is far from helpless.

The medical advice about depression is sound also. I know enough to recognize that beast, it is a nasty creature.

I will keep you both in my prayers, that you will be able to pull yourselves collectively as a family together to present a unified front to the enemy -- CANCER.

XOXOXOX

Prayers,

MaryAnn

[SharKats]

I am so sorry Karen - I can't keep names straight. I mean I had a problem doing that beginning 10 years ago and it is rapidly going downhill.

Both his daughters called him yesterday - I didn't want to question him too much about the conversations but he said Kari was going to come for a short visit in about 2 weeks. That will do him a world of good. My sister Linda drove over - stopped and talked with him while I was in the chiro's office for over an hour. I think he feels he has been overlooked - that everything has been about me, me, me, me. I need to attach much more importance to his role in this and his fears and disappointments.

I know people think you can drag someone kicking and screaming to a doctor but you can't. I would need about 5 other people to help me tie him up and then with the privacy issues and his refusal to cooperate, I don't think it would accomplish anything. I can't tell you how his refusal to seek help colors my feelings about him. I have no patience or tolerance for people who live in a time where help of all types is available and they put their head in the sand and would rather be miserable, frightened, depressed, feel out of control, etc. I hope no one thinks I am a bad person for feeling like this but I do and I am trying very, very hard not to let it show. I just hope when morning comes he'll be headed to work.

Nothing I'd like better than for him to be able to retire. BUT, when he moved here in '92, he was not able to find work for 2 years, ergo, savings, retirement all gone. I knew long ago we'd both die at our desks except the SCLC sort of changed the plan of me dying at my desk. Hopefully, it will be here at home surrounded by my loved ones.

Oh me, I just wanna wake up and find out these last 16 months were a very bad dream and I know most of us here want the same thing.

I will definitely be in touch with a Crisis Center if things worsen but I am praying and hoping against hope that given more attention and empathy toward his being a primary care-giver will work at least for now.

Thanks again for all of your support, suggestions and concern. You are all so great.

[SharKats]

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted you all to know that hubby is still deep in the depression mode and a "shrink" referral turned out to be a very expensive mistake since I didn't cancel chemo and accompany him. He left w/RX for sleeping pills; that's about all he does now is sleep or stare at the TV with the sound muted. So, I am communicating with his work and thank God they are being very kind and supportive. We saw a cancer counselor/therapist Friday and she said he needs to be on anti-depressants ASAP. It's a good thing I was there because I was able to relate his actual behavior and she was not just presented with this "facade" that he's somehow able to manage to convey to strangers. So we have 11:00 AM apt tomorrow with family practionier, of his choosing, and I am not leaving until we have RX in hand for anti-depressants. He seems to be very sound sensitive and I remember experiencing that many years ago when I had a "chemical imbalance". I also think anti-anxiety meds would be good but I don't know if he'll take anything other than the anti-depressants. The cancer counselor works within a cancer care group and you get six free visits. I only wish I had thought of and pursued this sooner. I do so want him to be getting back to normal before my WBR begins at end of month. Not sure I can handle both things at once.

Wish us luck - and I'll let you know what happens. (Daughter's visit postponed 2 weeks, sigh.....)

[Remembering Dave]

The cancer counselor sounds like the best thing you've done so far. Sounds like he saw an actual psychiatrist who prescribed the sleeping pills. I don't think psychiatrists (MD's) actually do much to help the person except prescribe meds. I've never seen one myself so I don't know first hand. I see a clinical psychologist, and she will talk to my family doctor and recommend certain meds or bring it to her attention that I might need them (like the xanax recently) but at least she and I talk through stuff, try to find ways to solve problems. And the biggest thing you have to be with any therapist is HONEST. My shrink says she talks to more liars and they're the ones who don't really want to get better.

Sorry, lots of stream of thought going on here. He needs the antidepressants for sure, but he also needs to TALK to someone about what's bugging him and making him sit in the recliner all day long. and he needs to be honest with that person and with himself. and you probably should not be in the room. the cancer counselor I would bet has dealt with this same problem many times before.

I have moments (week long moments) of depression lately over Dave's cancer, but I must say I am acting extrememly in the opposite direction most of the time - sort of manic. I know it bothers alot of people, but at least I'm functioning, and I hope like heck that your husband is functioning again VERY SOON.

Please keep us posted. I really care. and I understand.

God Bless,

Karen

[SharKats]

Thanks Karen.

The 11:00 AM appt turned into 2:15 because he refused to get dressed. I had to call and beg them to still see him. He rec'd RX for anti-depressants and when I asked tonight if he'd be sure and take them he said "he'd see". I quit - I give up. I am so weak from the last dose of chemo that I just don't have any reserves left to help someone who is only fighting me and making things more difficult. If he loses his job and we lose our home - so be it. I will find somewhere to go for whatever time I have left.

I am just weak, worn out, more depressed than ever and feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. I have brain scan set for Sunday and radiation ong appt Tuesday. I have to conserve what strength I have and prepare to face this. You can't help someone who doesn't want your help or wants to help themself.

Thanks for listening.

[Maryanne]

Oh Sharlene, what can I say. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. You certainly have done everything right.

My heart breaks for you to deal with what you are going through and you have this on top of it. Its bringing you down and that is not good for your recovery from all the treatments.

Does his daughters know the length of his depression? Because it is really bad. Do you ever talk to them yourself or is it aways just him?

Do you have family where you live? You need support, either from family or friends. You cannot go through this alone.

I feel so helpless. I just pray that he takes the medication and starts to feel better.

Please Sharlene, keep us posted, you will get support here but you need physical support from close people who care.

Praying hard for him to take the meds and your for strength to get through all this.

I really feel your hurt and I feel so so bad for you. Don't shy away from us, we want to help you. Anything you want to post that is fine, even if you just want to let off steam. Anything to help make you feel better. You are not alone here.

Maryanne

[Patkid]

Brian and I echo what Maryanne says...........Praying extra prayer for you and for your husband.

Bless your heart, Sharlene.

Brian and Pat

[SharKats]

Just a quick update: After weeks of Hal being in an almost canatonic state, I managed to get him to a doctor who prescribed Welbutrin. Hal refused to take them - so, finally got his daughters to come down and see him. (they didn't believe me because he "sounded just fine on the phone.") My sister had spoken with a psychologist who said as a last resort, there were steps that could be taken should he prove to be a danger to himself, yada, yada. Well, when a 68 yr old man goes for days without eating and some days without drinking, I'm thinking he could very well be a danger to himself and I was heading down the involuntarily commitment lane. The girls'2-day visit, along with all of us seeing the cancer counseler/social worker in addition to a long talk at home, got him to agree to take his anti-depressants. Since he had been having severe stomach problems, I scheduled an appt w/a different doctor who took him off the Welbutrin (she said it was ridiculous to have him on an anti-depressant that would take 4 to 6 wks to work when he so obviously needed help sooner.) He has been taking them so there has been some improvement; his concentration and focus has surfaced - to an extent, but we're still not there yet. I have just about decided I have done all I can and the rest is up to him. My worry bag is over-flowing and as it turns out, all the worrying in the world isn't going to help anyone who does not choose to help themself. (or is it selves?) So, still hoping and praying we're going forward and not backward and that his job is still there waiting for him.

PS. He was scheduled for an upper GI this AM at this medical campus near THE medical center. He was back home in 3 hours and it turns out he never "found the place." Now he has a cell, paperwork with the phone number, and there are a lot of places to stop and ask directions. I understand it is a HUGE facility. Hummmmmmmmmm.......... did I say I hoped we were on a forward roll here?

[ginnyde]

Sharlene,

You are right, you can't help someone who doesn't want help. Did the dr. give him a faster acting antidepressant? You need a compassionate and caring person who is taking care of you right now. I hope they find the right mix for your husband.

[Remembering Dave]

Sharlene, I do think at this point I'd be kicking his butt or something.

Could you go with him to these appointments, to make sure he gets there?

Was the Welbutrin giving him the stomach problems? Geez, should have kept him on it, I mean, if he'd been on it for a few weeks, it would have started working after a few more.

I don't know what else to say. It's hard. I've been very very depressed before. But I never became catonic. I guess my depression takes the form of anger and irritability more than anything so I don't understand this, but everyone is different.

Hang in there. I don't know what else to say.

Karen

[SharKats]

Hi!

He scheduled the upper GI at the same time of my WBR so I couldn't go. I've been to all the other appointments with him.

He says "I'm on his back incessantly" and "making him crazy". Oh well................he's already half crazy - may as well go all the way.

Thank you all again for the support and encouragement. This is THE most stressful time of my life and it's wonderful to be able to express these feelings to people who either have "been there" "are there" or understand what it would be like to "be there".

God bless us one and all. The next time I post here I hope to be able to say all is normal and he's back to work and they haven't hired someone to take his place.

[Maryanne]

Thinking of you babe, and really hoping all comes out well with your WBR.

You never answered our questions about if you have family or friends that you can talk too. It doesn't seem like his daughters will be much of a help since they are not here. I think you had said they came in. Were they able to see for themselves the extent of his problems?

Did all this start with him when you were first diagnoised?

Anyway Sharlene, I pray for you, and also that you are not alone going through all of this. I pray for him to get better and help take care of you. I feel you are a strong person who is so scared about your future and what is going on with him. But please concentrate on Sharlene as she needs all the help she can get to feel better

We worry about you, please keep us posted.

Vent anytime.

Maryanne

Maryanne

[Maryanne]

Hi Sharlene,

Just been thinking of you lately and wondering how things are going. You said you were having A WBR and wondering if you had it yet? If so do you know the results.

Any changes with your husband situation? Did he have his Upper GI done. What did he need that for anyway?

Keep us posted we are here for you as always.

Maryanne