Anger Issues

[laslalas]

Donna, I appreciate the delicate nature of this topic, but I do need to reply.

Smoking causes cancer. That is the cold hard truth. For me that is not a stigma, it may be for you - especially if you have LC and never smoked - but for me it is a reality. For more than 90% of people, Lung Cancer is a preventable disease. I know patients can't be blamed for getting sick, especially since the perils of smoking were at one time unknown and because addiction is very complex.

I for one, do not understand the science of nicotine addiction, but I do know that if you never pick up a cigarette because you are aware that smoking causes Lung Cancer, then you have a .04% chance of developing LC, as opposed to a smoker at 22%. We cannot deny the correllation. Since 1900, smoking has increased by 400% per capita, AND SO HAS LUNG CANCER. This is not a coincidence, people. Also, there are 3,000 deaths PER YEAR reported of Lung Cancer caused by second hand smoke.

If you think I am perpetuating a stigma, that's fine, call it whatever you want. But I am going to "shout it from the mountaintops" - I want everyone, especially those thinking of smoking, to know that LUNG CANCER IS CAUSED BY CIGARETTE SMOKING. By hiding this truth, many people will blindly begin smoking without knowing the consequences. I encourage everyone that reads this to, once a week, let a young person know about the detrimental effects of smoking- because if you are reading this, you most likely know from first hand experience.

FROM THE CDC WEBSITE:

Tobacco use is the leading preventable cause of death in the United States. Cigarette smoking causes an estimated 440,000 deaths, or about 1 of every 5 deaths, each year. This estimate includes 35,000 deaths from secondhand smoke exposure.

Cigarette smoking kills an estimated 264,000 men and 178,000 women in the United States each year.

More deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined.

On average, adults who smoke cigarettes die 13–14 years earlier than nonsmokers.

Based on current cigarette smoking patterns, an estimated 25 million Americans who are alive today will die prematurely from smoking-related illnesses, including 5 million people younger than 18.

Since 1950, lung cancer deaths among women have increased by more than 600%.1 Since 1987, lung cancer has been the leading cause of cancer-related deaths in women.1

[Connie B]

LCSC is NOT a smoking cessation program. We are way beyond that. We are dealing with lung cancer issues, be it from smoking related or not. We try NOT to judge those that smoked or quit smoking or never smoked, that's not an issue here, nor should it be. If you wish to offer support, then that's what we try to do. If your not walking the walk as a lung cancer patient, then you have no idea what this feels like and I hope you never will have to find out.

You came here asking a risky question and I think you got your answers. You have a lot to learn (IMO), and maybe you need more of a one and one counslor then what we can offer you here.

Everyone here already knows the stats. Some may argue them and some may not. It doesn't matter, we are dealing with lung cancer. Some members here have quit smoking, some never did smoke and some remain smokers. In any case they don't deserve to die. And smoking is STILL (sadly or not) very legal and in MY day it was very Socially accepted by all ages, young or old. That's just how it was.

I'm very glad your highly educated on the issue of smoking and what it does, but it's not important here.

Best wishes to you and your mother.

[Snowflake]

Smoking causes cancer. That is the cold hard truth. For me that is not a stigma, it may be for you - especially if you have LC and never smoked - but for me it is a reality. For more than 90% of people, Lung Cancer is a preventable disease. I know patients can't be blamed for getting sick, especially since the perils of smoking were at one time unknown and because addiction is very complex.

Here, ya wanna play "cold hard facts" try some LOGIC - there are people on here that never smoked and have lung cancer. OBVIOUSLY, there are other causes of lung cancer. THAT should be a no-brainer. I would be where I am REGARDLESS of if I ever lit a cigarette and placed it between my lips or not! I wonder how many of the ex-smokers or smokers would be here were they life-long non-smokers?

Some of the other causes are environmental exposures, radon, asbestos, silica dust, air pollution, pesticides, herbicides...the list goes on and on and on... Yet, it seems that when someone with lung cancer is being questioned by a doctor regarding smoking history, once the smoker/ex-smoker box is checked, no other cause is investigated.

You are standing pretty high and mighty, but maybe what you should realize is that YOUR odds of getting this damn disease are higher than MINE were, I am a life-long non-smoker, but there is NO lung cancer history in my family.

We don't mind venting here, anger is a part of grief, just remember to PLAY NICE. This crap about causing their own cancers is fear and ignorance, snap out of it!

If you are lashing out at people you don't know, I can't imagine what you share with those closest to you.

Seek counseling, you need it.

Becky

[laslalas]

Whoa...

I appoligize that I went off on a tangent on statistics. I was trying to address the above topic of the perceived STIGMA of lung cancer. A Stigma is a negative association - not a reason for someone to die or get sick. In no way did I insinuate that the disease is ANYONE'S FAULT or that anyone with LC deserves to die. I merely wanted to touch on the subject of prevention. I did not think that would be offensive. This forum is a community of those who have been stricken by the disease and I did not think it inappropriate to, for one post, recognize future LCSC members -- those whose lives WILL BE stricken with the disease - the millions of people that are in line to get LC -- who DON'T DESERVE TO DIE EITHER. But I guess that is too much to ask.

[karenl]

My Mum quit smoking almost 30 years ago. We don't know whether her condition is related to her habit or not. And, of course, it doesn't matter. I am not angry at her that she once smoked, but I can certainly relate to las's original post, and I believe that I would be angry if Mum continued smoking after her diagnosis. My brother smokes, even as he watches what is happening to Mum, and that frustrates me. I don't particularly show it to him, but I sure wish he would stop. I know that statistics are irrelevant to cancer patients, and I know that either my brother or I could get lung cancer at some point in the future. But he certainly has a greater likelihood of developing the disease than I do.

I think that Katie is right, it is something of a moot point on this message board. However, I think that Becky's reply was unreasonably harsh. Let's not forget that this post was written by a loved one of someone with lung cancer, and there are not many things more horrible than watching a family member suffer with this disease.

Let's ALL play nice,

Karen

[DonnaB]

Las:

I am sorry that you are in so much pain in seeing your mother going through this and your feelings of powerlessness. I guess she must have done some things right for you to care enough to try to make her quit smoking. I’m glad to see you are doing some research on statistics. Fortunately, there are many lc survivors that are changing the statistics due to better drug treatments found through clinical trials. I do not post here often, but I am frequently advocating awareness on lc issues whenever the opportunity may arise. I understand your anger. I have a daughter about your age and I know I cannot change the anger she feels toward people or things in her life until she gains understanding and willingness to change her perceptions, because I have learned you cannot change others. I wish she would express some of her feelings as you have.

What I am ADVOCATING is the need for EARLY DETECTION, MORE RESEARCH ON FINDING CURES which requires more FUNDING. Please continue on the road to educating yourself on the disease of Lung Cancer and what needs to be done to change the statistics. I also have received much hope and INSIGHT by all the caring people on this board and on other LC related websites. Check out the links to many of the other organizations listed on the LCSC links section. I am 2 years younger than your mother and quit smoking only two years ago, upon my husband’s diagnosis. I have learned from those that have walked this road before me to not blame him or other family members or friends that continue to smoke or may have smoked previously. I DO though suggest that they ask their physicians for chest xrays whenever possible so that IF there may be disease present that is caught EARLY. I myself enrolled in a clinical study for former smokers so that I could receive a chest CT scan. Fortunately, for those who have been diagnosed at an early stage, there are more treatments available, whether it be surgical removal, chemo or maybe some future pill that could be developed to cure the addictions and diseases caused by tobacco or by the genes you have inherited. Sometimes the GENE for lung cancer vulnerability runs in families. Sometimes people that are prone to addictions whether it be alcohol, drugs, or tobacco “are built that wayâ€

[Laura Ann]

After reading all these posts, I just don't understand how some people want to blame lung cancer on cigarette smoking when it comes to holding the big tobacco companys accountable, but then turn around and say it isn't really about the cigarettes. How can you have it both ways?

I am not defending tobacco companies, it just seems like people are afraid to put blame where it is due, and that ultimatly it come down to the person choosing to pick up a cigarette and smoke it. I believe that is what Las was trying to say.

In case you were wondering, I AM a former smoker and when I smoked with my girlfriends as a teenager we would laugh and refer to our cigarettes as "cancer sticks".

[stand4hope]

Dear Las:

First of all, I don't think that Becky's response was harsh in light of the words that she was responding to. I think she probably interpreted the post the way that many of us did, regardless of the intent.

First of all, since you are new to the board, you wouldn't know that this isn't just "one" post. There have been many, many, many posts on this subject, many of which have sadly blown up into major conflicts between some of our members.

Like Connie said, this is a lung cancer support group, and since many of the members here were smokers (including my husband) or are still smokers, sometimes posts like this sound like "lecturing" to us. I doubt that there is a single member of the 2,000+ members here that doesn't already know every single thing you posted about the dangers of cigarette smoking. There are other places where "teaching" about the dangers of smoking is appropriate, but not here. Smoking, or not smoking, is simply not an issue for us at this stage - treatment for a horrible disease and finding a cure IS the issue.

To be reminded of the hazards of smoking perpetuates feelings of guilt, shame, and anger to many of our members. Honey, just like your mom, members of LCSC don't need that right now. People like Becky who never smoked a cigarette in their life and have lung cancer have to live with the "stigma" of lung cancer being a smoker's disease and the subsequent lack of funding. AIDS is certainly a preventable disease in most cases, but funding for AIDS abounds. We need funding and we need a cure.

We so much want to give you support while your mother is struggling with disease, and that includes your frustration with her smoking. I think many of the posts here were wonderful in trying to help you accept and understand how difficult this is for your mom. That IS part of lung cancer support. It's unfortunate, however, that the thread took the turn that it did.

Praying for a peaceful end to the discussion.

Love,

Peggy

[Treebywater]

I think Peggy said things so well.

I also want to add that I think it is easy for prickles to come up with this topic because when people here, "Smoking causes cancer," it really sounds overly simplistic.

Surely we all know that smoking can contribute to people having cancer, but so can genetics, environmental hazards, diet (we don't hear people harping on that one much do we? and that could go across the board with lots of different types of cancer). So when I read a statement like, "Smoking causes cancer" in the context of my Mom or others that I care about dealing with what they are, my knee jerk reaction is to be stung by what I perceive to be a blanket statement which implies blame.

Did my Mom's smoking contribute to her having cancer? Maybe. So did her genes (her family seems to have a predisposition to cancers and lung problems in general). Who knows? Maybe the estrogen she was prescribed to take by doctors and on for years and years made her risk level greater as well.

When people get sick we want to look for something to blame. When it's us, it is crippling to think that we are to blame. For outsiders (and I don't mean you las, I mean outside outsiders) it is easy to say, "They smoked so they have cancer." I think it makes it less scary. It's a way to compartmentalize and to keep things at a distance so they don't have to think of it happening to them.

Anyway... just some thoughts I had rattling around. I hope you'll stick around Las. This is a great place for support. And we're all angry at something or other.

[Debi]

Everyone has spoken so eloquently and I cannot add one single sentence..well, maybe...

I know that this website is for support and not about the debate over cigarette smoking. However,the door was opened. For those of you that are annoyed with the tobacco industry or for those who think that tobacco companies and the government have no "blame", I wanted to post a few websites. This first is a recent article from the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00691.html. This is about the current racketeering case against the tobacco industry and the fact that there are accusations that a Justice Department official threatened to remove a witness from their list if he didn't lighten up on his recommended penalties for the tobacco industry. Oh, and here's another excerpt The Justice Department stunned anti-smoking activists and members of Congress two weeks ago by announcing in the closing days of the eight-month trial that the government would cut its demand for an industry-funded smoking-cessation program from $130 billion to $10 billion.

Conspiracy theory anyone? Also, courtesy of our own BobMc who I miss regularly, I have found interesting reading at www.tobaccodocuments.org. You could actually spend a month there and not make a dent.

Please don't assume that because I don't post about smoking on THIS website, that I am ignorant about it. I do what I can to spread awareness in MY way. Honestly, I could go up to a young person every week and tell them I got lung cancer from smoking (who knows if I would've gotten cancer somewhere else if I didn't smoke?) and I would not make a bit of difference. They would look at this old hag and think, well, she's old, who cares if I have lung cancer when I'm that old. Young people are infallible, being 48 is hundreds of years away, it will have the same impact as telling your kid that they can find a better boyfriend/girlfriend. NONE!

I suggest that if someone is angry at smokers, they educate themselves, channel their anger and get involved at a larger level. We have companies making BILLIONS of dollars off of selling a product that is addictive (KEY word here) to everyone that uses it, and it eventually kills them. Oh, and they spend some of those BILLIONS on marketing and figuring ways to get "replacement smokers" (their word) to take the place of those who have died. And the government does nothing or very little (when forced to). This is just MY opinion on smoking in simple form (I am trying to stop typing, I get worked up ) and I am posting this basically for informative purposes, not to argue anything that has been said. The "blame" thing is sort of like what came first, the chicken or the egg? With smoking its, who is to blame, the smoker or the tobacco company? Everyone has their own opinion and we could go round and round. My anger is directed toward the people that continue to sell this poison...

Las, I hope you keep posting and find your way to the peace you are looking for..

[Laura Ann]

When I posted my reply I should not have used the word blame. It can sound, when taken out of context, harsh. My apoligies.

The point that I am trying to make (in my opinion) that we as a free society must take resposibility for our own choices. When people choose to bake in the sun and tanning beds and then get skin cancer, who's fault is it? Those who get aids after engaging in promiscuity are they responsible for their behavior? What about the alcoholic who gets behind the wheel of a car loaded, kills himself and somebody's family member? The list goes on and on. These are all personal choices.

I do believe that tobacco companies have been deceptive, especially years ago when our parents and grandparents smoked, but just like the examples I listed above, you would have to live in a cave not to be aware of the dangers in engaging in risky behavior.

I do realize that this is a support forum and it does not help those who are suffering with lung cancer to criticize them. My post is not directed toward them it is simply a response to Las' topic.

In closing,

If every smoker quit tomorrow would there still be lung cancer? Yes, but how many fewer cases?

No matter how much money is spent on smoking-cessation, there is no law against smoking. No one can be forced to quit, it must come from within ourselves. We our priviliged to live in a free society, but along with that freedom comes responsibility.

Now, for those who wish to, blast away.

Laura

[Ladyintheglen]

Hello all. I am new to this forum but felt the need to point out a few things to Las so that he can better understand the smoking issue. This story begins when I was about 6 or 7 years old. My parents (both smokers) had some new neighbors over for coffee and desert. Trying to be the perfect little hostess I noticed that the new couple didn't have an ashtray near them so I quickly got one for them. When I proudly handed it to the wife she said, "No, thank you. We don't smoke." I was amazed and my reply was, "Why not?"

You see, we came from an era where we were told that cigarette smoking was not addictive, did not cause lung cancer, heart attacks, premature birth, strokes, etc.

I thought that all adults smoked. It was one of the things that made them adults. If you watch old movies, sitcoms or even an old news report you will see adults smoking. Bewitched, I Love Lucy, Batman, The Ed Sullivan Show, The Evening News with Walter Cronkite...The list goes on and on. Even the old cartoons had smoking. I am not saying that the media is to blame but if you think about it what habits have you grown up with because of the exposure it received? Do you drink plenty of water, exercise regularly, use the stairs instead of an elevator, cut back on sweets, eat more healthy grains, fruits and vegetables?

I just wanted you to think about the fact that maybe you don't smoke because of the media exposure that generations before you fought so that the next generation could be healthier than ours. I hope that maybe this little window of a time that has passed will help you to understand a little of your Mom's era. Maybe it will help you to rid yourself of a little piece of your anger. After all, the only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. I hope your counselor will help you to find more bites to take at your understandable "elephant" of anger.

God Bless us all.

Ladyintheglen

[lilyjohn]

We can argue back and forth about the evils of smoking. I think it is time for a reality check. At this stage what difference does it make to your mom? It matters little now if her cancer was caused by smoking or not. The reality is she has lung cancer. Nothing is going to change that unless a cure is found or she is one of the lucky ones who beats it.

I understand that you are angry and I understand your fear and frustration but the question I have to ask is what good is all of that doing your mom? It doesn't matter if you don't show her your anger. She is your mother and like Elaine said you don't have to say anything for her to know. You can't hide it no matter how hard you try.

Take the energy you are using gathering all of the information about smoking and put it toward helping your mom. Learn all you can about her cancer and the kind of cancer that she has. Research the things that are associated with it. Things like shortness of breath or the feeling of being short of breath( not always the same thing) learn about Acute respiratory failure blood gas inbalance and what causes it and about anxiety and depression. Does she have the best doctor what kind of record does her doctor have in treating her kind of cancer? How does he interact with your mom? Those things are important. You can have a really good doctor but if they know a patient too well they start taking things for granted. That leads to missing things evem little things that can be important.

What kind of medications is she on? What are they for and does she really need all of them. I'm not talking about chemo drugs but other things. Research those drugs and learn about the side effects and what should not be mixed with what. When a person has lung cancer doctors don't look at those things but as a family member you can and should. You want your mom to be comfortable but you don't want her life to be ruled by both cancer and drugs that she does not need. They can destroy a person's quality of life as much or more than the cancer. They can also at times lead to an early death. Believe me. I know only too well.

The point I am trying to make is to let go of what is in the past. You can't change that but you may well be able to make a diffence in the future. Your mom needs you. Give her all you have while you can and let the energy you spend on all of that anger help you do all that you can for her while you can.

I pray that for both of your sakes you can let this issue go and concentrate on what is important now. Your mom's care and your love for her.

[Pamela]

I guess I can't resist adding my 2 cents to this discussion. I have noticed that many people on this forum are super sensitive to the smoking issue, and any discussion of the link between smoking and cancer causes controversy. I'm sure that as a nonsmoker I can't understand the complex emotions a smoker with lung cancer would feel. When my Dad was diagnosed, he looked at me and said, "I guess I killed myself, didn't I?

We all do things that put our health in jeopardy. Some of us carry extra weight and don't exercise regularly even though we know it may well kill us. (An news item just this week confirmed the cost and incidence of obesity-related health issues.) Some of us drive too fast and don't wear our seatbelts. Some people drive motorcycles without helmets. My big health problem is the crushing, never-ending stress I allow. Try researching what stress does to your body! I think I'd be at less risk of health issues if I smoked!

People with lung cancer don't have the time or energy for guilt. Let it go. It is what it is. ]

Nonetheless, if we could eliminate smoking -- especially in young people just starting it -- we could spare a lot of pain for a lot of people. We couldn't eliminate lung cancer, of course, but if smoking-related lung cancer could be reduced, that would make a big dent in it. It would also force the medical industry to focus on the other causes instead of assuming that smoking did it.

I remember when the campaigns started against drinking and driving. Many people were angry that they were being criticized for have a few drinks and driving. Of course, not everyone who drinks and drives has an accident and kills someone. Some people have done it hundreds of times with no accidents. On the other hand, the campaigns have certainly lowered the number of alcohol-related traffic fatalities.

This isn't about judgment or about who's right and who's wrong. This is a two-pronged approach: (1) FIGHT LUNG CANCER AND FIND A CURE REGARDLESS OF THE CAUSE, and (2) TRY TO PREVENT LUNG CANCER IN ANY WAY YOU CAN! We can work on both avenues without stigma, guilt, anger or blame for anyone.

Smokers -- you don't deserve to die from lung cancer and you don't need to feel guilt about it. No one does. Whatever the cause, lung cancer should be funded and researched. We need a cure. Too many people are dying.

Pam

[Doughnut]

Wow,

This thread has gone mad since I last looked at it. The sensible thing to do would be to leave it....however...

I'm with Lilyjohn on this. The issues Las raises about smoking aren't invalid but they're not going to help you or your Mum now. Save it for later. The comments on the sensitivity here if people mention smoking has me a bit narked too. If I got breast cancer 'cause I had one too many burgers I wouldn't necessarily want that rammed down my throat. Why does everything have to be blamed away on smoking? What about Becky or Dadstimeon or TAnn? The non-smokers with this bl**dy disease seem to understand better than everyone else that it doesn't matter how you got it. AHHH. I'm really mad so I'll go away before I say something I shouldn't.