Maryanne Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Some things bothering me. Did Joel really need this 2nd operation to take out those tiny nodules? The reason they operated was because they thought the one nodule grew from 4 ml to 7 ml. When the surgeon went inside he found out it was another small nodule right next to the first one, so it did not grow at all. After the operation, Joel asks the Oncologist if he would have known that it was another tiny nodule would he call for an operation. His answer was probably not, they would just watch it. Which is what we wanted in the first place to wait 6 weeks and scan again. Also, at first I was excited that he was going to have the VATS surgery as that is a very fast recuperation. Well because his surgeon stuck his hand inside and felt around the lung to make sure he did not feel any more nodules Joel is still has pain as his ribs were spread and are still sore. I mean, why have the VATS if he was going to do that. There are 3 tiny incisions compared to a large one, so for that I am grateful. But the hand thing necessary? Also when Joel had the first surgery to remove the lobe, his surgeon told us that because he has small hands he did not have to cut or remove a rib. But in reality, when Joel had his pre-admission for his latest surgery there was a small piece of rib missing. He told the radiologist that couldn’t be, but he showed Joel on the X-ray. When we confronted his surgeon, he said yes, I always do that, is my signature. I am just 2nd guessing I guess, as Joel brought this up to me. He just feels he may not have needed the surgery and now the chemo. I have one more question. Okay yes the little nodules according to the pathologist were cancer. One was a new primary and the other one they were not sure if the nodule was from his first cancer and it metastasized so they took it as a spread. Anyway, my question…. Can a person live with cancer cells that don’t grow? I had to get this off my chest. Any opinions here? Be honest. Maryanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowflake Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 MaryAnne, I don't think you're second guessing yourself, I think you are losing faith in your husband's surgeon. It sounds like what he says and what he does are two different things... Take some time to de-stress, relax, breathe, and then look at the situation again. I believe your real question, the one I'm reading between the lines, is if you should place your trust in a doctor that gives you different stories about the same thing, depending on the "evidence" you have. Maybe you should take Joel's records and get a second opinion - but remember, hindsight is 20/20 and the doctor for the second opinion would have all the facts that your primary doctor discovered upon surgery. Just for peace of mind, I think I would seek a second opinion, or at least a review of the records to see if there is agreement on the treatment he is getting. I'm sure a person can live with a cancer that doesn't grow, spread or populate, but if it didn't do all those things, it would not be cancer. As long as the nodules stay small and stay in check (and don't keep seeding new nodules), he's fine. I don't know, personally, if I would be able to sit back and not do anything to work on eradication if I had active and growing disease. You are NOT second-guessing yourself, re-read your post. You have questions on the capabilities of the person in charge of your husband's life. Sounds like valid questions to me, as well. Start looking for some answers, you are NOT crazy. xxoo, Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryanne Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 I am mostly second guessing his Onchologist, as his surgeon actually thought we should wait 6 weeks and be rescanned again. He also saved Joels life the first time. His operation instead of 3 1/2 hours took 7 and he only removed a lobe instead of the whole lung which we are grateful. It took 7 hours as the tumor was on top of his aorta (thank G-d not connected to it) and he had to cut little pieces at a time being extremely careful not to cut a vein or artery. The 2nd time he just did a small wedge section. He opted to feel the lung maybe because he had him open anyway and could do it. So I guess he is not really the problem. Maybe I just didn't hear him right. Whatever, but we really like him, he is wonderful and calls to check up on him where others wouldn't. He even inititated a hug to Joel when he left following his post op. I guess, we are just wondering if Joel really had to go through all of this. Perhaps we should have gotten a 2nd opinion before the 2nd operation, It is over now.. we were just wondering about if it was necessary and what happens if it is cancer but does not grow. Can you live with that. I guess you can never say you are cancer free then. Maryanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindi o'h Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Hi Mar, I have read different places and at different times that many people have cancer cells that are inactive. I don't know where I read that, but I believed it. I don't know if they were tumors or just cells. Cells, I think. Second guessing. I've done plenty of that myself. I just want to be sure to make the "right" decisions for the future. And we learn from our mistakes, right? I would do things a little differently myself if I had as good foresight as I do hindsight.. How 'bout another martini with a couple of plump olives, hun? mmmmmmm! (and a glass of dark red for Joel!) Cindi o'h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marym Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Hi, Its so tough to be sure of the right decision. I try to have doctors whom I trust and then seek their opinion. I also chek online for some additional data points in arriving at my decisions. I alwasy ask what is my alternative? why is one better or worse and what are consequences of this vs. that. BUT, with all that, how could we possibly not second guess ourselves - there is so much new to us and the doctors don't all agree. I think your decison was reasonable based on the information available. I hope Joel has a short and siccessful recouperation. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ztweb Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 I don't know the answer to your question, but I do look forward to hearing when someone does. I can't believe he made the comment about his "signature!" That seems appalling! Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welthy Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Maryanne, I agree with Jen re: the signature. Appalling is right! The word "liar" comes to mind also. As far as the Monday morning quarterback thing, (and remember I'm a pro at that!) I always have envisioned that the right combination of events and environment in the lungs created the cancer in the first place. I figure to really beat the disease you need to change or remove the environment that spawned it originally. Now I know that sounds wacky, because you cannot live without your lungs, but I still am of the old "cut it out" school of thought. So I think your Joel stands a better chance at survivorship without the "nasty" area there anymore. Tony has never had a recurrance in the particular area of his lung that was removed in a wedge section because... well, it is GONE! Now you all know I've gone totally around the bend... Welthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryanne Posted December 3, 2006 Author Share Posted December 3, 2006 Debi, your picuture of you and your family is beautiful. I can't find on the profile who is who, please enlighten me. Maryanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolhg Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 I cannot believe the "signature" explanation. That is just unreal. Who knows--he might be taking bits of pieces of ribs and other body parts from patients and building whole new people. Welthy-love your Carepage photos, beautiful family. The PET scan photo is sobering. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welthy Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Maryanne, Thanks -- Back row is Tony, me, and oldest son Jason (whose wife Sandra was unable to come to that wedding due to studying for finals), Front row is our twins Rebecca & Philip. Photo is about 10 mos. prior to diagnosis. And yes, I am considerably younger (20 yrs) than my hubs, but I'll never end up looking older than him, although it may come close! Carolhg, Thanks for stopping by Tony's carepage. Yes, it is unbelievable that Tony is still here based on that PET scan. I've never really seen anyone post that remotely sounded like how his cancer presented. That's why he never met NED. But he, with God's help and some more chemo, will beat the new stuff back again. Welthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick C Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Maryanne, I have no good medical opinion, but if what they removed was cancerous, I personally wouldn't be upset to get it out of me. But genetically I am wired that way. When mom found an extremely small lump on her breast she had a radical double mastechtomy just for good measure... I personally don't like the signature comment either. Can a person live with cancer cells that don’t grow? I've been to several cancer conferences (even before mom's lung cancer) and some of the research being done is to figure out how to neutralize tumors so that they are chronic, but not terminal. So if they are researching how to do that, I suppose it is possible to live with non growing non spreading cancers...the trick is I guess they don't typically behave like that. Anywho, don't second guess yourself. You are doing everything with the best intents. But if you wanna take the doctor to task for the undoing of the VATS benefits and the rib, I think you are entitled! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don M Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Maryanne: I don't think you should second guess your self either. The path you and Joel took was a logical one and each decision was a logical one at the time. by the way, my surgeon told me he was going to take part of my rib and I told him I wanted it back when he was done with it. It is in my desk drawer now. Don M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Lamb Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Maryanne,I was able to go for a long time with cancer cells in my body without any major spread or growth of them.They had me on a watch and see mode since I have limited options left.Unfortunately it came back big time in my chest and spread also to my brain. It is my belief that sooner or later if it is in there it is going to spread or pop back up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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